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Old 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM   #21
vikasevan
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2001 SL2
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Code P0301 Troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
I have seen a recent upswing in the number of folks getting SES lights that reveal the P301 code when scanned. (Misfire) I will toss this out as a quick "general" troubleshooting guide with TWO senarios:

Senario #1.
Upon initial start up, cars runs/idles very rough, though usually sometimes only briefly, and SES light comes on. (Code P0301 generated)
In this senario, odds are that a problem exists in the IGNITION system somewhere. Things to check:
1. Spark plugs (non platinum, correct gap)
2. Spark plug wires (cross firing due to age and moisture or oil flooded plug wells in the DOHC engines only)
3. Coil pack towers (corroded)
4. Coil pack to engine bolts corroded at loop connectors

Senario #2.
Car starts and idles ok, cruises ok, but stumbles, jerks and or "misses" during moderate acceleration or hill climbing, and SES light comes on. (Code P0301 generated) In this senario, odds are that a problem lies in the FUEL or EGR system despite what the code suggests. A fault in one of those other two systems may be leaning out the air fuel mixture briefly and causing the misfire. Things to check:
1. Fuel injectors clogged
2. EGR valve sticking
3. MAP sensor vacuum ports clogged/leaking or poor electrical connection
4. Faulty TPS or TPS wiring/connector
5. Items 1-4 in senario 1 (just to be sure)
So you dont think it could be loss of compression in cylinder 1 because of mechanical wear?

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Old 07-22-2018, 11:23 AM   #22
FutureSat
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2002 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: Code P0301 Troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Hope this isn't too late a reply - a blinking check engine light is a warning of fuel not burned in the engine and entering the exhaust system to burn in the catalytic converter. If driven this way for about 50 miles, irreversible damage can occur and damage the catcon permanently. A flashing cel should not be ignored by driving any more than necessary to get to a repair shop or home as soon as possible to begin troubleshooting to find out what's wrong.

While there was no reason not to post here, almost everyone like you with an S-series car usually post in the S-series tech forums where the majority post and receive replies. Start a new thread to receive as much attention as needed to have the best replies from as many members willing to help you.

I recently used Seaform on my 01 SL1 1.9L with 145,000KMs. I took out the spark plugs n put some seafoam into the spark plug holes to clean the piston heads while the engine was still hot. Anyway, while I pulled out the plug to Cylinder #1 the plug broke, where it attaches to the spark plug, I tried to fix it by re-crimping the plug. Immediately after starting the SL1 check engine light came on, with P0301 code. Cylinder 1 Misfire (Engine light was flashing) maybe 30kms of driving. after I disconnected the fuel injector power to cylinder 1 and was driving on 3 cylinders #2,#3,#4 for about 120Kms went to a scrap yard and got a new plug for Cylinder 1. I'm 100% the Cylinder #1 is working, as when the engine is running and I pull the plug wire off the spark plug the engine start runs abnormally and when placing the plug wire back onto the spark plug of cylinder #1 visually I saw a spark as the car was running. and the engine noise resumed to normal. I reset the Engine code. However the Car still acts the same, P0301 pops up and upon acceleration the engine light starts to flash and the car starts chugging along at highway speeds.. I put my OBD2 tester on it to view the senors and the EVAP sensor is not reading. so now I am thinking I have to change out the EVAP solenoid purge sensor, or clean it.. IDK how it created such a issue. prior to all this the car was running perfect. every other sensor on my OBD2 tool is reading on the scan except the EVAP. I am trying to think out the logic of rationale of how the broken spark plug wire may had cause the EVAP sensor to fail, or any other issue. Even with the new plug attached and I am getting spark to cylinder #1, injector is clean. the car engine sounds normal, I am still having a flashing check engine light. AS you stated FDryer, which means unburnt fuel.. into the exhaust, How can this be if the engine has the spark. IDK even when it didn't i ran it maybe 30kms before disconnecting the fuel injector power to #1.

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Old 07-23-2018, 08:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Code P0301 Troubleshooting

FutureSat, 30kms/18.6 miles isn't a lot but one never knows how long misfiring can go on before all the unburned fuel rages and melts catalytic converters. 50 miles/80.5 kms is one service manual guideline. Google melted, damaged catcons for examples. Very few are aware when catcons disintegrate and begin blocking exhaust flow with strange engine/xmission symptoms. Saturn gave 80k(?) miles/5 years warranty on exhaust systems so engineering decided it was best to use longer lasting stainless piping, better resonators, mufflers and longer lasting catcons to avoid short term issues. Pre EFI systems without catcons didn't need better materials and lasted until they rusted off, often long after new car warranty. Catcons generate water and hot water runs acidic in exhaust environments to eat exhaust systems from the inside out. EFI systems runs leaner than pre EFI systems so exhaust tends to be hotter. Engineering tends to anticipate problems well in advance since they're the ones knowing all the parameters in every engine cycle whether in subfreezing or desert temperatures, single driver or loaded down with friends, family, roof and trunk carrying all the goods one wants while away from home. Repeating P0301 can be difficult if not aware of all the things that contribute to misfiring. It's not just spark plugs or spark.

Misfiring can be related to; loss of compression, incorrect spark plugs, injector fault, incorrect fuel pressure, clogged fuel filter, burned valves, intermittent pcm operation, mechanical timing altered, faulty knock sensor, etc.. Separating mechanical, electrical and electronic issues can be challenging if there aren't well defined symptoms. Extensive testing is sometimes required to eliminate everything that can be tested.

You can swap ignition coils, spark plugs, plug wires and injectors to see if the problem moves. A fuel pressure check with a loaner from Autozone helps gather info. Expect 40-55 psi at ignition on time or with engine idling.

If you are describing the evap system not ready, the OBD II system isn't ready for emissions inspection (100% ready status), this is probably not related to the misfiring problem. EFI systems runs and monitors everything. Having more than one problem, with or without an error code, isn't unusual. What isn't discussed here is when an error code occurs and its emissions related when the on board emissions monitoring program halts at the error code and will not continue until the error is corrected. All emissions monitoring halts as soon as one error is generated and turns on the SES/CEL/MIL indicator. Concentrate on correcting the P0301 cylinder#1 misfire code. As soon as this is corrected, the next engine startup should turn off the engine light and allow the emissions monitors continue from where it left off unless a manual reset was performed where the entire emissions program must go thru every step as the engine runs, car driven, as if it just left the factory. When the OBD II system is left alone, errors corrected and engine light turns off, emissions monitors already learned allows the system to detect the correct repair and usually go immediately to ready status. Ignoring the evap monitor may be better until the misfire problem is solved. Once solved and the engine light turns off, the evap monitor may go ready immediately or soon after the car is driven. Concern for the evap monitor may be a case of putting the cart before the horse.

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Old 07-27-2018, 06:55 AM   #24
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Default Re: Code P0301 Troubleshooting

Thanks Fdryer for the insight. much appreciated, very helpful. I will consider replacing the Catcon $$ if research points that way. the fuel pressure test is something i didn't consider. I really think based on your original post, that 30km driving on 3 cylinders killed my catcon with the unburnt fuel. even tho there is a flex portion that i thought fuel would leak through. the catcon is older anyway and something i never replaced since owning that sl1. I don't know how valve being burnt could effect this as you suggested. valves are burnt all the time by combustion so it shouldn't matter, I do not think anything bad could of happened with the engine internals. I am thinking the catalytic converter needs a replace. sadly the value of the sl1 Vs a new direct fit cat con is irrational.

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Old 07-27-2018, 07:27 AM   #25
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Post Re: Code P0301 Troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
FutureSat, 30kms/18.6 miles isn't a lot but one never knows how long misfiring can go on before all the unburned fuel rages and melts catalytic converters. 50 miles/80.5 kms is one service manual guideline. Google melted, damaged catcons for examples. Very few are aware when catcons disintegrate and begin blocking exhaust flow with strange engine/xmission symptoms. Saturn gave 80k(?) miles/5 years warranty on exhaust systems so engineering decided it was best to use longer lasting stainless piping, better resonators, mufflers and longer lasting catcons to avoid short term issues. Pre EFI systems without catcons didn't need better materials and lasted until they rusted off, often long after new car warranty. Catcons generate water and hot water runs acidic in exhaust environments to eat exhaust systems from the inside out. EFI systems runs leaner than pre EFI systems so exhaust tends to be hotter. Engineering tends to anticipate problems well in advance since they're the ones knowing all the parameters in every engine cycle whether in subfreezing or desert temperatures, single driver or loaded down with friends, family, roof and trunk carrying all the goods one wants while away from home. Repeating P0301 can be difficult if not aware of all the things that contribute to misfiring. It's not just spark plugs or spark.

Misfiring can be related to; loss of compression, incorrect spark plugs, injector fault, incorrect fuel pressure, clogged fuel filter, burned valves, intermittent pcm operation, mechanical timing altered, faulty knock sensor, etc.. Separating mechanical, electrical and electronic issues can be challenging if there aren't well defined symptoms. Extensive testing is sometimes required to eliminate everything that can be tested.

You can swap ignition coils, spark plugs, plug wires and injectors to see if the problem moves. A fuel pressure check with a loaner from Autozone helps gather info. Expect 40-55 psi at ignition on time or with engine idling.

If you are describing the evap system not ready, the OBD II system isn't ready for emissions inspection (100% ready status), this is probably not related to the misfiring problem. EFI systems runs and monitors everything. Having more than one problem, with or without an error code, isn't unusual. What isn't discussed here is when an error code occurs and its emissions related when the on board emissions monitoring program halts at the error code and will not continue until the error is corrected. All emissions monitoring halts as soon as one error is generated and turns on the SES/CEL/MIL indicator. Concentrate on correcting the P0301 cylinder#1 misfire code. As soon as this is corrected, the next engine startup should turn off the engine light and allow the emissions monitors continue from where it left off unless a manual reset was performed where the entire emissions program must go thru every step as the engine runs, car driven, as if it just left the factory. When the OBD II system is left alone, errors corrected and engine light turns off, emissions monitors already learned allows the system to detect the correct repair and usually go immediately to ready status. Ignoring the evap monitor may be better until the misfire problem is solved. Once solved and the engine light turns off, the evap monitor may go ready immediately or soon after the car is driven. Concern for the evap monitor may be a case of putting the cart before the horse.

I am looking at direct Fit catalytic converters, I see that the SL1 sohc says there is different part numbers for the years.. 93-97 / 98-99 / 00-02. Visually the pipes all look the same.. Fdryer do the cats all fit? its all the same engine 1.9l sohc, visually they look the same.. same curves and everything. second opinion plz.

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Old 07-27-2018, 09:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: Code P0301 Troubleshooting

I'm not 100% familiar with the S-series and defer to members familiar with replacement exhaust systems and whether or not direct fit is as advertised.

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