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Old 11-25-2022, 03:33 PM   #21
Waiex191
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
Did you remove the old line in one piece as a template to make the bends in the new line?
I did that once. Then I found I had to unbend it to install, then rebend. Just make the length good and route/bend it as required.
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Old 11-25-2022, 04:52 PM   #22
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

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Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
I did that once. Then I found I had to unbend it to install, then rebend. Just make the length good and route/bend it as required.
You just saved me a lot of time! Glad I asked the question.
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Old 11-25-2022, 05:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Lengths:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=236929

Or duplicate your old ones by length.
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'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
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Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:47 AM   #24
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2002 SL2
Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
Lengths:
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=236929

Or duplicate your old ones by length.
Not that I am going to try but how were you able to get the rear lines out in one piece? Did you have to remove the rear subframe/ crossmember?

Couple of days ago, I removed all stamped 10 mm steel nuts on the plastic blocks w/o breaking any. Got all the flare nuts off at the master cylinder. They were tight, I was not strong enough with the short flare wrenches and had to use pipe extensions to help with leverage to break them free. Also got the rear flare nut off at the flex hose union. Next step is remove the old line. Probably cut them into sections for easier removal.

Any more tips on snaking/ bending the Copper Nickel line? Debating if I should replace just the one line with the leak so I could move the car or do both lines.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:19 AM   #25
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Sounds like you are in good shape. You can cut the old line or just pull it out. It will bend enough to escape the rear suspension.

If it was me, I'd replace both lines while you are doing the job. It's a matter of time and you will be kicking yourself when you have to climb underneath again. I replaced all my hoses too.

Just route the line where it needs to go, then start fastening those clamps to hold it. It's easy, don't overthink it.
...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
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Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:40 AM   #26
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

OK, I'll do both lines. As for the hydraulic hoses, what's a good source for them (I'm in no rush) Autozone, Advance auto parts, Amazon?
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Any brands to avoid?
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Old 11-28-2022, 12:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
Any brands to avoid?
It's a crapshoot. I would avoid Raybestos, based on a bad one I got. Hope manufacturing comes back onshore someday.
...
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Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 11-28-2022, 05:24 PM   #29
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Old lines are out! Cut into 3 pieces to make them come out easier. I also cut all the fittings off and put them into their respective location. Kept the bubble flared ends as examples of what they should look like when I practice making more flares. Labeled the master cylinder so I don't get the lines mixed up.



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Last edited by Silverblu02SL2; 11-28-2022 at 05:35 PM. Reason: add more info
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Old 11-28-2022, 05:32 PM   #30
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
It's a crapshoot. I would avoid Raybestos, based on a bad one I got. Hope manufacturing comes back onshore someday.
What was wrong with the Raybestos? L & R front hoses are different p/n's while the rears are the same p/n? Do the rear hoses need new hardware at the wheel cylinder (bolt, copper washer and clip) or can the old ones be reused?
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Old 11-28-2022, 05:48 PM   #31
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Is there an online factory manual? Link please if there is one. Thanks!
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Old 11-28-2022, 06:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Raybestos used to be top quality. One of the new Raybestos hoses I bought for the '99 was faulty. I bought a replacement from a local store. It's all chinesieum now sadly.

Generally you should replace the copper washers but you can reuse the bolts. In a pinch... but on the other hand you can buy a package of those washers at the local parts store.

I have alldatadiy but you have to pay for it. I think ultravioletnk posted a link somewhere.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/member.php?u=120158

Edit: yes right and left front are different, the rears are the same (but different than the fronts).
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Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018
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Old 11-28-2022, 06:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
Is there an online factory manual? Link please if there is one. Thanks!
What service information are you looking for specifically?
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:21 PM   #34
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

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What service information are you looking for specifically?
I was hoping a factory service manual that covers everything Saturn, mechanical, electrical, body, engine, transmission, fuel, brakes etc.
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:22 PM   #35
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
I was hoping a factory service manual that covers everything Saturn, mechanical, electrical, body, engine, transmission, fuel, brakes etc.
Oh OK, I thought you were looking for specific information relating to this brake line repair. Sorry, I can't help you with finding a complete manual set. Maybe you could search ebay for a set?
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Old 11-29-2022, 01:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

I've been reading up on bubble flares and there seem to be conflicting info in youtube videos on which side of the flaring tool (flat or countersunk) side to use. From pics of a flare nut and flared end I cut off from the old factory line, it looks like both the flare nut and flared line's support surfaces has a flat and not a concave surface. My opinion is that a bubble flare is done on the flat side of the flaring tool, a double flare is done on the countersunk side of the flaring tool. What do you say?



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Last edited by Silverblu02SL2; 11-29-2022 at 01:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-29-2022, 01:46 PM   #37
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

This is my flaring tool, showing both sides.



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Last edited by Silverblu02SL2; 11-29-2022 at 01:46 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-29-2022, 01:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

I think you are right. I don't think my bubble flare kit has a countersink. My old double flare set and my aircraft AN flare set do have a countersink.

Edit: make a few on scrap for practice. You can use the old steel line or if you have enough nicopp you can use that.
...
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'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
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Old 11-29-2022, 02:12 PM   #39
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverblu02SL2 View Post
Is there an online factory manual? Link please if there is one. Thanks!
Check the information in this post >>Legitimate, Cheap, Service Manual Software on Ebay?- Post 6

I'm not sure if it is still out there or not.
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Old 11-29-2022, 03:35 PM   #40
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Default Re: Soft brake pedal, went to to floor, leak under driver's seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
I think you are right. I don't think my bubble flare kit has a countersink. My old double flare set and my aircraft AN flare set do have a countersink.

Edit: make a few on scrap for practice. You can use the old steel line or if you have enough nicopp you can use that.
I've been practicing on nicop but mine do not match the factory flares in diameter or thickness. Will post some pics later to ask if mine are good enuf.
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