Output Shaft Quill Seal Qs

[cozwurth]

Take a look at this thread, several posts down.

https://www.w-body.com/topic/56443-t...-5tm60/?page=2

[Highmile]

To me it just looks like a roller bearing with a seal on one side. that in itself is not all that uncommon.

Any one have the od x length x shaft size is accurate measurements?

It's an Ina bearing, that would be my first stop.

Highmile
'95 SL1 747k and counting

[billr]

Ah, more good clues. I had read that this type trans was used in an Oldsmobile at one time, but no idea what model or year. Knowing it is a Getrag 284 should also help.

Via private email, user "cgg17" advised me the shaft is .965" OD and the bearing/seal combo is .865" long. That .965" (24.5mm?) bearing ID is the killer, not standard for either inch or metric bearings. I have suggested that a 30mm bearing could be fit in there, using a specially-fabricated (hardened and ground) sleeve on the shaft. I just don't think there is enough market to justify the cost of developing and manufacturing the "kit" that would be needed. I will look for parts relating to the Getrag 284 as time permits.

[billr]

Well, I have been unable to confirm that the S-series manual trans is a Getrag 284 (or anything else).

[cgg17]

The saturn MP series trans is a unicorn unfortunately.
School picked up, so it is on the back burner right now. Still have to get hardness testing done.
Dodge neons use a similar setup, but I did some digging and found that their bearing and housing are not close enough to work with.

[Chub]

I thought I responded to this thread again, but I guess I never did. It took me a large number of weeks and dozens of phone calls but I finally found an MP3 out of a 97 SC2. It looked like it had been sitting outside for a number of years, but I cleaned it up and put my 5th gear swap in it from my original MP3. Just before I put it back in my 95, I looked over the quill seal and thought that it didn't look the best. But it took me so long to find just one transmission, and I needed my car, so I went with it. Things went well for a few months but my clutch is slipping again. I'm not sure if the seal is leaking again but it is making the same whining noise under acceleration that the old one did when it was leaking. I don't want to keep doing this every few months... Has there been any progress on a more permanent solution? Either that, or does anyone have an MP2 or MP3 they aren't using that I could buy? Almost all of the ones on car-part.com in my area are ones from 5+ years ago that haven't been deleted for some reason. Thanks.

[cgg17]

Originally Posted by Chub

I thought I responded to this thread again, but I guess I never did. It took me a large number of weeks and dozens of phone calls but I finally found an MP3 out of a 97 SC2. It looked like it had been sitting outside for a number of years, but I cleaned it up and put my 5th gear swap in it from my original MP3. Just before I put it back in my 95, I looked over the quill seal and thought that it didn't look the best. But it took me so long to find just one transmission, and I needed my car, so I went with it. Things went well for a few months but my clutch is slipping again. I'm not sure if the seal is leaking again but it is making the same whining noise under acceleration that the old one did when it was leaking. I don't want to keep doing this every few months... Has there been any progress on a more permanent solution? Either that, or does anyone have an MP2 or MP3 they aren't using that I could buy? Almost all of the ones on car-part.com in my area are ones from 5+ years ago that haven't been deleted for some reason. Thanks.

I have not came up with a solution for the housing, I have found a bearing and seal and figured out the loading inside the trans to confirm the bearing will be sufficient. The issue is the shaft size is not standard, and the casing will have to be manufactured.

Once my semester ends, I will be removing more quills from transmissions and testing them on my stand to see if they leak. I may be able to sell some, maybe around $50? as they are quite laborious to remove in the junkyard.

[RobertGary1]

If you go to pick n pull you'll probably find a dozen lying on the ground. These transmissions are far from rare.

[cgg17]

Originally Posted by RobertGary1

If you go to pick n pull you'll probably find a dozen lying on the ground. These transmissions are far from rare.

Not around here, a lot of S-Series are gone. I see one here and there on the road, maybe 5-10 in the yard with most being auto. The last 5 quill seals I pulled in the yard, I had to remove the trans from the car.

[Chub]

Originally Posted by RobertGary1

If you go to pick n pull you'll probably find a dozen lying on the ground. These transmissions are far from rare.

Maybe outside of the Northeastern US they are plentiful. Rust sent most S-series here to the crusher 10+ years ago. There is only 1 pick and pull within a 3 hour drive of me and they have an online inventory. They have 2 S-series and both look to be automatic. All the other yards I called got rid of their s-series parts a long time ago. I can't remember the last time I saw a Gen1 Saturn in the wild since rust kills cars as new as 2012 here.

[Chub]

Originally Posted by cgg17

I have not came up with a solution for the housing, I have found a bearing and seal and figured out the loading inside the trans to confirm the bearing will be sufficient. The issue is the shaft size is not standard, and the casing will have to be manufactured.

Once my semester ends, I will be removing more quills from transmissions and testing them on my stand to see if they leak. I may be able to sell some, maybe around $50? as they are quite laborious to remove in the junkyard.

I'm glad there has been some progress on it. I would definitely pay $50 for a solution. I would even pay $100 for it. I have put too much time (and nice parts) in my SC2 to have it die just because of trans seal leaks. It is just too economical of a commuter to just give up on it because of a seal.

[Chub]

Time for a bump. Any progress on this? My current transmission is driving me crazy for the same reason as the last one...

[cgg17]

No real progress.

For fun I sent in the CAD file of the new casing that would have to be created, and was quoted over $400 alone.

I am patiently waiting for my three to start leaking from the quill...

[Chub]

Thanks for the update. $400 does seem pretty steep for a housing. Since I have nothing to lose I think I might try one of those stop leak seal Swellers to see if it could possibly slow down the leak. I wonder if it would also be a good idea to use as little ATF in the trans as possible so there is less liquid trying to leak.

I'm also devising a procedure to spray brake cleaner on the friction disc via the inspection cover every so often to see if I can keep it going that way. I just hate not being able to use much throttle in 5th since most of my driving is on the highway and since I have an mp2 5th it's not helping my case...

I just keep hoping that someone who has long sold their Saturn finds one of these seals in a random parts box in their garage and lists it on eBay. Either that or I need to start begging people on here to sell me a low mileage mp3 because there is nothing near me.

[Waiex191]

Could a housing be made on a lathe? Or with a CNC mill?

[cgg17]

Originally Posted by Chub

Thanks for the update. $400 does seem pretty steep for a housing. Since I have nothing to lose I think I might try one of those stop leak seal Swellers to see if it could possibly slow down the leak. I wonder if it would also be a good idea to use as little ATF in the trans as possible so there is less liquid trying to leak.

I'm also devising a procedure to spray brake cleaner on the friction disc via the inspection cover every so often to see if I can keep it going that way. I just hate not being able to use much throttle in 5th since most of my driving is on the highway and since I have an mp2 5th it's not helping my case...

I just keep hoping that someone who has long sold their Saturn finds one of these seals in a random parts box in their garage and lists it on eBay. Either that or I need to start begging people on here to sell me a low mileage mp3 because there is nothing near me.

I may have a seal I can send you, I have to dig around. It is used of course but I can do a static leak test it on the rig I have set up.

[cgg17]

Originally Posted by Waiex191

Could a housing be made on a lathe? Or with a CNC mill?

Lathe, but the issue would be that the housing serves as the bearing race as well, so I believe some hardening would be required.

[SLfun]

I'm dealing with the same issue on my 96 dohc 5 spd: leaky quill seal that eventually oiled the clutch. Funny how it used to be the dreaded diff pin that would kill these cars, now this.

Anyways, I put in some Blue Devil trans leak sealer, will see how that goes.
I never lost enough trans fluid to have to add any, so hopefully the seal sweller will do it's thing.

Worst case, the clutch starts slipping again, I'll just automatic swap it
I mean the car started life as an automatic anyways....

[bumpdraft]

Could the transmission housing be bored oversize to accept a different quill bearing from a different vehicle? Could a sleeve be pressed onto the Input Shaft?

The quill bearing is the last part to be removed when completely dismantling an S-Series transmission. Purchasing a modified transmission housing from a machinist is not unreasonable.

No one would ever recoup the cost of making a quill bearing to match what’s in the S-Series now...

On the other hand, an oil-soaked clutch doesn’t seem to affect my car...except for an annoying shudder while staring out, until everything is warmed-up. —Then, the friction disk engagement with the flywheel is as smooth as ever. (That is, IF an oil-soaked friction disk is what is causing the shudder)

[cgg17]

http://rodneydickman.com/product_inf...roducts_id=305

Just came across this. Might be a feasible process to implement on the Quill seals. I have a bell housing apart in my basement I am going to take a look at today. Might be able to get a few pieces drawn up in CAD and 3-D printed to test it with.

This would allow for the original bearing to be used, with the front seal being replaceable (which I have found an off the shelf one that will fit the housing and shaft with no machining or sleeves required).

Only downside is having to drill and tap mounting holes in the bell housing case.