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Old 08-03-2012, 06:28 PM   #1
jym
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Default How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

.

Title should be;
How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement, THE RED NECK WAY.

Short story;
Yes it can be done from the inside with a careful cut in the rear seat pan.

Long story;
Fuel gauge quit 3 month ago ( wife ran out of gas, still blames it on me ). I'm not willing at that point to pay a garage to investigate since I know the exhaust and tank have to come out and they might say I need a new pump.

Went on vacation in Delaware during the Heat Wave; 104F, a/c blowing 40F.. No problem. Back home in Montreal the fans stated acting up and soon after the MIL came on; code "p0171 to lean bank1". I'm glad this didnt happen on vacation.

Researched it on the Web; fuel filter or pressure big suspects. Changed the filter, and the plugs (why not). No change.
Hooked up the diagnostic connector to my laptop and saw that the "long term fuel trim" was at +25% under load and +15% at idle. Yep fuel pressure is looking to be it.
Tried to purchase a fuel pressure gauge kit but they retail for 60$ here in Montreal, so I gave a local garage $10 to show me. 32psi... should be 50-60psi.
He gave me a price for the job; $865. That s 1.5 hour at 68$, 640$ for the pump (yep, that s what they want for it here) and 15% sales tax (yep, I live in Tax heavy Canada).

IM NOT PAYING +800$ FOR THIS.

So I looked on Google and found the well written post by matthewwwaqui (google it with "matthewwwaqui 173539") here on the forum and the pictures showed exactly where on the tank the pump is. I transferred the location to the seat pan and with some "heating duct snips" spent about 60-90 minutes cutting/probing the area

Got a used pump for 165$
Got my neighbor to be my security officer with garden hose in hand and a path to pool cleared up just in case
Changed the pump in 10 minutes
Checked for leaks, none
Started up right away
No more MIL and the "long term fuel trim" is down at 0% most of the time .
Fuel gage works
Problems fixed

Notes
-I used "channel lock pliers" to remove the 6 inch ring holding the pump in place
-The spring loaded shafts on both pumps were disassembled, I had to use pliers to push the shafts back in the top part. Could it be part of the problem with the gauge..
-They sell replacement pump motor on EBay for $40,.. could be interesting, but I needed the fuel gauge part to, so I could not try that this time.
-There is a "crossmember" in the seat pan just where your knees are, thats why I bent it from there
-There are 3 holes sealed with grommets that are used for air evacuation during the painting of the car I suppose, I used the center one to start cutting from. Probed with a paper clip to decide which direction to go. Turned out to be aiming towards the passenger side rear wheel for about 2-3 inches, then straight towards the back.
-The grommet hole I started from is in the crossmember reinforcement, hard to cut until clear out of it
-I sealed everything with roofing sealing membrane which is very thick, flexible, with super strong adhesive and even stretches before breaking... love this product. 1 roll of 6 inches by 33 feet costs about 20$ but the peace of mind of the hole being sealed forever is worth it.
-Could not find a rental place with electric cutters the right size.
-I used cutters that nibble a channel in the metal. They have the smallest size blade which is important since the free space underneath the floor pan is low. I used regular scissor type once before (for the same purpose on my Cavalier.. at 200,000 miles... it was to rusted , had to put her to rest) but found that they constantly jammed since they dont create a channel to travel in.
-I used a hammer to help move the toll along
-I tilted the tool sideways to a 45degree angle when I needed to change direction
-On a Saturn l200, sometimes the fans come on full speed if there is an imminent malfunction. If it lasts long enough the MIL will come on, if the problem fixes itself (ie; bad gas etc. ) before MIL light up, then the fans return to their normal speed and you might never notice you almost had a problem.

Important notes
-Some of the plumbing is right against the floor pan (mostly the vent/purge tubing) so I had to snip very very carefully and kept the blade at such an angle that it rode flush with the underside of the floor pan all the time, The blade itself moved the tubes as it passed over them. Where the clearance was low, I snipped 1/4inch, probed gently with a dull, thin steak knive (which has the same shape as the tool cutting part), to confirm no hard obstruction, then cut 1/4 inch more and so on and on and on (did I say it took me more than an hour..)
-Also I deliberately dulled the first 1/2 inch of the snipping tool's blade (which was very sharp even underneath where it does not need to cut anything.
-The flap created by the cut can be pushed down to far and damage the tubings, this is why I installed bars longer than the size of the hole so that the flap rest against them when it is closed.


Very important notes
-Safety is important, have a partner standing by at all time.
-Structural integrity of the car is modified, but in my opinion not very much since the crossmember is mostly left intact. Ive had cars that had their underside badly weakened by corrosion, THAT did compromise the intregity of the unibody desing. Im confortable with the repairs I did on my Saturn as being minor.

Recap

Pressure check 10$
Snipping tool 20$
Sealing membrane 20$
Used fuel pump 165$
Smiling every time I pass in front of the garage that gave a 865$ estimate PRICELESS


.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

I like it.........



...
Ed

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Old 08-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

I did something similar to this on a '71 VW Type 2 (Transporter) to replace the fuel gauge sender. The cut was described by a factory TSB with all the measurements. I installed a new piece of sheet metal over the hole secured with sheet metal screws and silicone sealant. If you didn't make the cut, then the engine had to come out to access the fuel tank. I notice that the pump location is visible on the bottom of the L-Series fuel tank as a raised circular area. That could be used to transfer the coordinates to the car floor. This is a poor way to build cars. Some have an access hatch in the floor over the fuel pump to make for easy inspection and replacement. My Saab 9-5 has this and I used to have a Mercury Tracer (AKA Mazda 323) that did as well.

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Old 12-08-2012, 12:47 AM   #4
Christ
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

I pulled the tank down on my '01 L200 to check the pump without pulling the exhaust at all... and it had a half a tank of fuel in it.

Remove both hangers from the muffler and let it hang free, put a jack under the tank and loosen the retainers, and slowly lower the tank down on a block on the passenger side til it's almost 45*, then push the exhaust out of the way with your foot and pull the tank sideways toward the passenger wheel.

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
I pulled the tank down on my '01 L200 to check the pump without pulling the exhaust at all... and it had a half a tank of fuel in it.

Remove both hangers from the muffler and let it hang free, put a jack under the tank and loosen the retainers, and slowly lower the tank down on a block on the passenger side til it's almost 45*, then push the exhaust out of the way with your foot and pull the tank sideways toward the passenger wheel.
Did you have to disconnect any of the fuel lines running to the tank to do this?

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepat View Post
Did you have to disconnect any of the fuel lines running to the tank to do this?
It's been on the north side of 3 years, so I'm not totally sure (I work on everything all the time, remembering a detail about one specific car isn't easy), but since I didn't have disconnect tools at the time, I'm thinking I didn't.

I also don't believe I pulled the wiring from the pump, either. I know I tested both the pump and the wiring outside the car, so I'm thinking it was all "right there" next to the car/under the rear right hub/spindle.

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Old 05-17-2013, 11:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

very clever! thank you very much!

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Old 06-29-2013, 04:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

JYM,

Thanks for the great write up. I just finally got around to doing this and it was a great idea and big help.

Just a couple of notes:
- On my 2003 L300, there was a bunch of sound dampening(?) tape covering the sheet metal under the seat. A stiff putty knife from Home Depot (paint scraper aisle) made short work of tearing this up.

-If you look at the pictures, you should be able to tell the general locations of any wires/lines. Keep the bottom blade against the underside of the sheet metal and you really aren't going to cut through anything you dont want to. I was able to make the flap in about half an hour thanks to the pics.

- I actually cut the flap off. Home Depot sells 22 gauge 12 inch by 12 inch steel sheets that I formed in the general shape of the bump and then secured with the roofing tape mentioned. Each side overhangs and the metal is stiff enough that I don't think you have to worry about it hitting the fuel lines. They also sell a 16 gauge sheet, but I didn't think the snips would be strong enough to cut through.

Thanks again.

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Old 06-29-2013, 05:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

I pulled my tank out it was a pain in the ass cus I had almost a full tank in it too but was able to slide it out on the passenger side after I got everything disconnected.

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Old 09-20-2013, 02:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Jym jym jym... where do I start with you? Do I start with I Love You Man? Or do I start with I wish this world were different so I could build a monument of you on the white house lawn??

This thread hopefully just saved my poor (literally, shes a student) niece $700 on her 2000 LW1. Im going to look underneath and verify the fuel tank is in the same spot - if not Im going to be cutting into the trunk Either way, this thread gave me a lot of hope. Thanks!!

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Old 09-20-2013, 04:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

It might be worth renting a Ketts saw for a job like that.

-Richard

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Old 04-27-2014, 05:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Hey guys, 1st post here. Bought a Saturn L200 a week ago and didn't even get a week's use out of if and the pump died on me. Got the car for $1100 total certified and E tested and car only has 150,000kms (93205.7miles) I did the redneck mod today and thought I'd add a photo with dimensions. I used an angle grinder (not recommended) but I use an angle grinder daily and have pretty good finesse with a cutting disc. I went very slow at it. I put a leather welding apron over the rear carpet just in case and had the red Bottle on standby You need to be super careful not cut the fuel lines as there is only 1/8" clearance. I'm in Ontario Canada and I called my regular parts guy and he quoted $365 for a name brand pump and $385 for a china knock off...go figure. I checked EBay and got a Highflowfuel.com HFP-369 for $15 Someone had bought but never ended up using it and is still sealed in the plastic bag. Shipping cost me more than the part, total with shipping was $34.50 Retail is $59.98 with free shipping in the USA. Now I just need to wait for the mail to arrive.... Guess I'll be driving the dually this week
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Are you sure the fuel pump croaked? 150k km/92k miles isn't a lot. There is a way to test for fuel pump operation/failure. Posted many times here. Hearing the pump hiss/hum is one way at ignition ON time and/or using a fuel pressure gauge. Depressing the fuel test valve is always a simple test when stranded.

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Old 04-27-2014, 06:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Yes I tested everything relays, fuses ect. Code scanned it and got 1 code p0171 Even put my ear to the tank and got the wife to cycle the key, not a sound. It was taking long to start last Sunday when I left and went to the inlaws for Easter dinner and then after leaving for home took 2 tries. I work from home so Tuesday was the next day I needed the car and I cranked for 5 seconds to get it to start. Went to town ran perfect even stopped and started fine at the several places I went to. Then coming home cruising at 100km/h up my rd car just dies 2km south of my house. Lucky I have a friend near by that gave me a lift home and got my dually and towed it home. I also depressed the fuel valve on the rail, not a drop.

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Old 04-27-2014, 06:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Didn't realize file size was limited here goes again...
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Old 04-27-2014, 06:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

There's a specific sequence to have the fuel pump run at ignition ON time as the pump runs for 2 seconds then shuts off if the engine isn't started. Safety. After turning ON ignition, fuel pressure should be high enough to spray out the test valve. A fuel pressure gauge is more accurate and doesn't depend on hearing. Once ignition is left ON the pump will stop after 2 seconds. The only way to test for the fuel pump and its wiring is to wire a small jumper across the fuel pump relay terminals 30 and 87; this sends 12v to power the pump immediately regardless of ign switch position. With power manually sent to the pump, either the pump runs or not.

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Old 04-28-2014, 11:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

jym, a million thanks on your post! My pump was starting to go bad. A couple times, tapping the fuel tank with a rubber mallet got me home. I bought a generic pump assembly from amazon.com for $80. Taking my time with the cutting, I had the new pump installed in under 2 hours. Here's a few pics with a ruler for scale.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabooge View Post
Didn't realize file size was limited here goes again...
Great picture! So how did you reset the square steel cut out piece back in place after the installation of the fuel pump?

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Old 04-30-2014, 03:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

/\ that's what I was wondering. You have to patch the floor somehow. Else, in case of accident, you will be driving a blast furnace.

My 1977 Rabbit (RIP) had an opening in the floor pan. With a sheet metal cover, held by screws. Placed strategically over the fuel pump. Just sayin'

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Old 05-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: How to save 500+ on a fuel pump replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrot View Post
Great picture! So how did you reset the square steel cut out piece back in place after the installation of the fuel pump?
I am welding a small flange around the perimeter of the plate that I removed and will sheet metal screw the panel back in place. I will likely seal the plate in place with RTV. Still waiting for the darn pump to arrive, but I will upload a photo of the finished result.

Dan

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