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Old 01-14-2018, 06:41 PM   #1
Baron5867
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Default Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

I should know this, but I am confused right now.

I have the tires off two of my alloy wheels. I want to run a wire brush attachment on a drill around the insides of the rims, on the tire mating surfaces, to knock off sealant and any corrosion.

I thought to use brass wire wheel, but I do not see any in my box. All the ones I see online say "brass-coated" steel.

Are all "brass" wire brushes actually "brass-coated"? What about the brass toothbrushes I've used for work on (aluminum) engine gasket surfaces?

Or is possible to use a steel wheel brush on these? I tend to think not...


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Old 01-14-2018, 07:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Any power wire wheel or scotch brite paint stripper will potentially trash the bead seat. The use of that brush-on sealant is a crime against the owner. Solvents and a plain old green scotch brite pad. The wheels are coated with a clear coat so any paint softening or removing thinner will ruin that. Kerosene is probably the best bet. SAMS club used to sell a box of the green scotch pads for grill cleaners or you can find them at a decent grocery store. That sealer will peel off reasonably easy.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

I'm with Oldnuc on this one. I wouldn't use anything harsher than scotchbrite and maybe mineral spirits.

That said, if you don't chew up the bead badly, a tire will probably still seal against it, but you risk corrosion starting if you strip the paint/clearcoat off the rim. Once that happens on an aluminum rim it's a pain to get it to seal again without aggressive measures.

If the bead is already toast, I've always had luck with garden variety rubber cement on the bead to seal. Slather it on the bead of the tire and then fill the tire with air and pop the bead. I like rubber cement because it's easy to peel off later if you don't want/need it any longer. There are commercial sealers as well, but cheap-o rubber cement works just fine.

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Old 01-15-2018, 12:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

There are two ways to demount and mount tires; using tire machines that don't scratch aluminum rims or manual methods using tire spoons that guarantee scratching any paint or clear coat (inside and outside). Once paint/clear coat is scratched, bare aluminum is exposed to air and begins to corrode. Hammered on wheel weights are incorrect for aluminum wheel balancing. Stick on weights are the correct weights since they don't scratch or damage painted/clear coated rims.

As soon as wheel weights are hammered onto aluminum rims for balancing, the steel clamps scratch paint/clear coat allowing long term corrosion to eventually lead to bead seal leaks. Ask whoever does tire balancing what type of wheel weights are used and if they don't know or care, go elsewhere until someone can answer the question. Good tire shops may even ask whether your rims are steel or aluminum so they can provide the correct answer. Steel rims use wheel weights that are hammered onto rims with steel clips. Aluminum rims should always have stick on weights, not weights with steel clips that damage aluminum. Better tire shops use tire machines that do not scratch aluminum rims to preserve the finish of every rim brought into their shop.

If you need to clean off the severe scratches from steel wheel weights cutting into rims, use whatever removes the damage (steel wire brush on a drill or pneumatic air tool and follow up with clear coating bare aluminum. Be sure to clear coat bare aluminum to prevent future corrosion from creeping back. There are examples everywhere with a simple google search to show corroded aluminum rims with bead seal damage from using the wrong wheel weights. If you mount tires using tire spoons, you're likely to damage the clear coating and provide a way for future corrosion to occur. The secret to preserving aluminum rims against bead seal corrosion and tire pressure leaks is to never allow clip on wheel weights and ensuring the bead area is clear coated. Clear coating the bead area, inside and outside = zero corrosion. Tire soap allows lubrication for tires to slip onto rims without creating friction that can damage clear coating around the bead area.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron5867 View Post
I want to run a wire brush attachment on a drill around the insides of the rims, on the tire mating surfaces, to knock off sealant and any corrosion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VUEmaniac View Post
That sealer will peel off reasonably easy.
Except that there is probably also some "fix-a-flat" sealant present.

Pic attached. The one on the left was the one that had an inside rim leak and sealant.

I worked with a generic green dish scrubbie and Simple Green to get off most of the sealant-type stuff. It took some work. I then wiped it with spirits to loosen the stubborn spots.
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File Type: jpg Wheels01.jpg (143.9 KB, 15 views)
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Further pics of the wheels, front and back. The fronts were done with duplicolor primer, wheel paint and clear coat years ago. Looked great at the time, but did not really hold up.

I noticed that the wheel that was NOT leaking had a slightly bent rim (see pic)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Wheels02.jpg (122.5 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Wheels03.jpg (130.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Wheels04.jpg (99.8 KB, 11 views)
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

If it is neither leaking or thumping live with the bent rim as aluminum tends to crack when you attempt to straighten it.
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Any power wire wheel or scotch brite paint stripper will potentially trash the bead seat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VUEmaniac View Post
I'm with Oldnuc on this one. I wouldn't use anything harsher than scotchbrite and maybe mineral spirits.
I had concerns about this. The sad part is that I bet many tire installers would not hesitate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The use of that brush-on sealant is a crime against the owner.
I am not a tire expert, but my understanding is that it has its place and its legitimate uses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The wheels are coated with a clear coat so any paint softening or removing thinner will ruin that.
I plan to hit them with a clear coat when I am ready to mount tires.
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
If it is neither leaking or thumping live with the bent rim as aluminum tends to crack when you attempt to straighten it.
Too late . Already attempted to straighten, do not see any problems.

I knew that cracking/damage was a possibility. OTOH, I did not want any problems with the tire installation.

The inside of that bend (the tire mating surface) has a very minor depression that I can barely feel with my finger. I filled it with JB Kwik (I am waiting for it to cure right now). After it cures, I will sand it flush (I hope).
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

with experience working in a tire shop ever time there was a bead leak on the tire i would always take a wire brush and brush off the corrosion and applied bead sealer without any lube on the tire and sure it worked good but i was also told by another tire shop ( guy went to school) he said to brush off the corrosion on the bead part of the rim and apply Murphy's lube its basically snot used for sealing tractor tires and i used that and it works good on my car until more corrosion pops up, as for wheel weights we always used a lead/ steel clip one and made sure that it was right type of the wheel weight for that vehicle/rim and if we wern't sure we used a measuring tool to help use honestly sticky weights are good but they do tend to ether come off or have to get new ones with the weights on the rim I've never stretched a rim putting on a clip type weight, if there is any corrosion or white stuff on the bead of the tire id just scrub it off with a rag and some water
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
There are two ways to demount and mount tires; using tire machines that don't scratch aluminum rims or manual methods using tire spoons that guarantee scratching any paint or clear coat (inside and outside).
If I understand you correctly.... it has been a long time since I've seen tires manually mounted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Once paint/clear coat is scratched, bare aluminum is exposed to air and begins to corrode.
While true, my understanding is that it is of particular concern in the rust belt. That is, it is not merely exposure to air, but exposure to road chemicals that work their way in that causes the real problems.

Quote:
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Hammered on wheel weights are incorrect for aluminum wheel balancing. Stick on weights are the correct weights since they don't scratch or damage painted/clear coated rims.
It is only within the past few years that I've seen sticky weights used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
As soon as wheel weights are hammered onto aluminum rims for balancing, the steel clamps scratch paint/clear coat allowing long term corrosion to eventually lead to bead seal leaks. Ask whoever does tire balancing what type of wheel weights are used and if they don't know or care, go elsewhere until someone can answer the question.
I have the tires, and I am looking to have them mounted at Costco. I meant to call them to verify that they can do sticky weights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The secret to preserving aluminum rims against bead seal corrosion and tire pressure leaks is to never allow clip on wheel weights and ensuring the bead area is clear coated. Clear coating the bead area, inside and outside = zero corrosion. Tire soap allows lubrication for tires to slip onto rims without creating friction that can damage clear coating around the bead area.
The wheels should be cleaned up and clear-coated when I go to have the tires mounted. I'll try to post pics.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

It's a wheel, not aluminum foil. You can use a rotary wire brush, low speed polisher and sandpaper, or toil away by hand. I've used a rotary wire brush on an electric drill followed by polishing the aluminum out afterwards to fix the bead seals on several cars and trucks.

If the edge of the rim and bead seal area are cleaned and polished properly, you won't need any of the crappy bead sealer that causes some of the problem. Keep the clamp on wheel weights off of it, and you remove most of the corrosion problems.
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Quote:
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It's a wheel, not aluminum foil. You can use a rotary wire brush, low speed polisher and sandpaper, or toil away by hand.
My sense is that a steel wire brush on a drill or similar would be too rough for an aluminum wheel. The professional guides that I've seen on this support this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
I've used a rotary wire brush on an electric drill followed by polishing the aluminum out afterwards to fix the bead seals on several cars and trucks.
I am not sure how involved your polishing is, but I suspect that most tire installers aren't going to do it. They are just going to run the wire brush on the aluminum wheel, and use sealer to "fix" any problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaster View Post
If the edge of the rim and bead seal area are cleaned and polished properly, you won't need any of the crappy bead sealer that causes some of the problem.
Agreed. That is what I shooting for here.
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

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honestly sticky weights are good but they do tend to ether come off or have to get new ones with the weights on the rim I've never stretched a rim putting on a clip type weight
The rim shown above with the sealant on it (the one that leaked) had sticky weights put on it when the tire was new, years ago. A few weeks after that, I (luckily) had the wheel off for something, and I noticed that the weights were coming off. I drove it back to the shop, pointed out that the weights were coming off, and said, "Let me guess, these aren't supposed to be like this....". They re-balanced the wheel, and the weights were still stuck tight now, years later.

My guess is that any problems with the weights staying on is due to improper installation, perhaps by applying them to a surface that needs to be prepped for the adhesive, but isn't.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

I have a 1/2 HP electric motor on a hinge mount mounted to a 4x4. There is a rear wheel mount off a SC2 also mounted to the board.
(any rear will work). Mount wheel rim to bearing hub, then put a long v-belt on the motor pulley then around the rim. The weight of the motor gives enough friction for the motor to spin the wheel with authority.

You can now clean the bead seats with coarse, progressing to fine sandpaper. Clean with MEK, then paint. Clear coat is fine. I have done several rims in poor condition this way and they hold air pretty well.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron5867 View Post
My sense is that a steel wire brush on a drill or similar would be too rough for an aluminum wheel. The professional guides that I've seen on this support this.



I am not sure how involved your polishing is, but I suspect that most tire installers aren't going to do it. They are just going to run the wire brush on the aluminum wheel, and use sealer to "fix" any problems.



Agreed. That is what I shooting for here.
Being that you had the tires off the rims, I assumed you would do the cleaning up rather than an installer. I agree that it's unlikely an installer would clean them up properly, especially when they could just gob on more of the sealer that creates most of the issue.

The brush I used was around 6" diameter and not too stiff. If in doubt take whatever wire wheel you have and put it on the center of the rim to get a feel for things. The wheel is likely way tougher than you expect.

I first did this on an F-150 that had beads that leaked due to the gobs of sealer. I just had them dismount the tires and then cleaned the rims in question up. It would have easily taken hours and hours by hand. The wheel and then following up with a buffer wheel and some aluminum polish was much quicker, and the surface was nice and smooth afterwards.

As for the "professional" guidance, keep in mind that is was "professionals" that caused the issue. It didn't take any advanced techniques to clean up the wheels I've worked on, and the end result was a clean rim that sealed the tire properly.
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

There you guys go again - worrying me about what Discount Tire (the place I normally go to get new tires installed) is going to do to my alloy wheels when the time comes (in the next few months). This is my first set of alloys. Is there something I could/should say to them to help minimize the odds of them messing something up? Should I insist that they 'clean' the wheels before installing the new tires? Do I need to make sure I tell them to use the 'inside the wheel' weights for them, etc?

I've never really had a concern with the steel wheels I've always owned in the past...
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

They are called stick on weights and they are placed on the back side of the wheel on the centerline --no steel clip drive on weights. Tell them to not use anything except bead lube --none of that black rubber crap.
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

It will make a big difference if you clean up the inside of the wheel. I have had shops complain that the glue won't stick on a dirty surface - I guess they don't get paid enough to clean a spot..
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: Wheels 1 - Wire brush on alloy rims..

That should not be a problem in Texas.
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