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Old 02-16-2016, 11:57 AM   #1
jeepdad
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Default Haynes manual?

First post, new member. I just ordered a Haynes manual from Ebay, it is a 1991-1999 edition, but I own a 2002 SL1. Is there much difference between a 99-and a 2002 that the manual won't be much help?
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

Anything to do with Passlock it won't help with. Anything you can't do with a dollar store tool kit it won't help with either but that's just the quality of the S-Series Haynes manual. I found it tears easy and makes great kindling.
...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

You may want to return it. '91-'95 are first generation, '96-'99 are second generation. '00 and up are third generation. What separates third generation Saturns from the first two was integrating body control modules (BCM). Some added features with bcm's; GM's Passlock theft deterrent system, controlling instrument panel lighting and warning indicators (except abs and airbag), interior and exterior lighting, providing gateway communications of error messages from all modules to the OBD II system for output to the diagnostic port, and more.

Subscribing to alldata or Mitchell online may be more useful as well as becoming familiar with Saturnfans covering almost every problem brought up by members. The wealth of free info here is second to none and more so compared to dealers giving any info on technical problems. Alldata/Mitchell provide service manual info.
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

Thanks guys! I figured this site has the majority of info i need but i always liked the capacity info from Haynes. And without the internet Haynes could be fairly helpful. I'm still a total newby with Saturns, I've mostly been a ford and Jeep guy. But back in the day I had Chevelles and a camaro and a cutlass when they weren't worth much and they were cheap to own. LOL! I miss those days!
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdad View Post
Is there much difference between a 99-and a 2002 that the manual won't be much help?
Not really. Aside from what was mentioned - the PCM got moved from behind the instrument cluster to behind the battery... the steering wheel in your car does not have threaded holes for a puller, it needs a "J" hook-type puller. some slight differences in how the dashboard attaches. Otherwise, your 3rd gen is very similar mechanically to 2nd gen so far as how things are attached

How useful a Haynes is, is a completely different question

There are links to differentracing.com, the How To library, and richpin's videos in the sticky thread for new owners, which should cover just about everything.
...
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

It is edge bound toilet paper.
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

There's not a ton of difference really. All the components are in the same places. Haynes manual not going to give you a lot of in depth tech info anyways, it's more of a here's some occasional pictures and torque specs. Everything that's critical is mostly in there, the rest you can find easily with google.
...
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Old 02-17-2016, 08:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

Quote:
And without the internet Haynes could be fairly helpful.
From my experience, Haynes is not especially useful if you intend to do much beyond oil and filter changes.

Quote:
It is edge bound toilet paper.
But at least the ink does not smear too bad if used as such

AllDataDIY and the FSM are infinitely better, with the FSM providing something you can readily take into the garage with you, use with greasy hands, and more importantly - make notes in.

FWIW: As an illustration of the difference in detail, The 1995 FSM runs about 3488 pages of text and diagrams, the current Haynes S-series manual covering 12 years and 3 generations is only about 250 pages
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2Sick View Post
it's more of a here's some occasional pictures and torque specs.
...and some of those critical torque specs were misprinted....
...
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7/2010 Craigslist white 1997 SC2 project
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

I haven't used a Haynes as anything more than a door stop or table leveler in years anyways.
...
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

LOL! Lots of hate out there for Haynes I see! LOL! In the past I always liked them for the wiring diagrams and the electrical help with my ford trucks and jeeps. But I can probably get any info I need about my Saturn from you guys on this forum.
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Old 02-18-2016, 09:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

As of this writing, in the S Series section of this forum there are:
92,366 threads

948,049 posts
My money is on the forum over the Haynes manual!
...
.

2001 SL2 manual - original owner - remanufactured engine at 228k miles, December 2015
1992 SL1 - bought used in '93, totaled in '00 at 170k miles, drove it cross-country a lot!
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Old 02-18-2016, 10:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

I've found the Haynes manuals to be useful for maintenance things like brakes, fluid changes, engine/transmission troubleshooting (never had to either apart, so far!), suspension work, etc. I suspect if you are rebuilding an engine or something, Haynes is going to be pretty skimpy on details you need. It's good to have a ready listing of torque specs, fluid capacities, etc. I've usually bought the Haynes book for each vehicle, and just leave it in the vehicle.
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Old 02-18-2016, 11:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

Critical torquing procedures and specifications tend to be flat out wrong randomly depending on the edition. All torque specs must be checked against the generic torque tables readily available.
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

What I would really like is a scanned FSM.

Mitchell/AllData are all right, but require Internet access in the garage or a device with enough memory to hold at least a DVD's worth of data and the right OS to run the AllData program. Plus I find these third-party compilations leave out a lot of information about how various systems are supposed to work.

The OEMs' HTML-ized FSMs are unwieldy even when complete: there is a lot of clicking from one page to another for the information you get, and I suspect the OEMs love them (Toyota abandoned PDF in favor of HTML in 2006, for example) because they force shadetree mechanics to maintain an ongoing subscription when they don't have the scripting know-how to extract local copies.

A complete scanned Saturn FSM wouldn't run to more than 1 GB at useful resolution and could easily be loaded onto an old smartphone for consultation in the garage with greasy fingers. (The FSM for the family 2005 Toyota Camry runs to almost 4000 pages but takes only 90 MB as a single file on my phone--convenient.) It's a shame there is no such thing as a home book scanner.
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:02 AM   #16
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Haynes manual?

When GM put all their data up on the company network it was in an odd format that has never been converted and leaked. No hot copies of the current iteration either. Scanning of a paper copy is a huge undertaking and will destroy the original paper copy as the binding must be sheared off so it can go through a document feeder. Most newer smartphones will drive an external keyboard and monitor so a computer in the garage is doable but can be a pain to setup. Or that old laptop or desktop machine can have a new home. Might as well as getting rid of old computers is near impossible without getting hit with some "disposal fee".
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Haynes manual?

For capacities, torque specs etc.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=198051
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