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Old 10-04-2009, 02:36 AM   #1
Saturngirl4ever
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Default Whining on acceleration

I was driving earlier this evening and had the radio off. I heard this like high pitched whining when accelerating and it would wind down when I would decelerate.

I don't know how long this has been going on because I usually have the radio on. I'm not quite sure whether to drive it or have AAA tow it to Saturn.

I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know if it was a belt slipping or if it is the transmission (I just had the transmission flushed at EZ-Lube on Thursday).

Any idea?

Thanks..
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Originally Posted by Saturngirl4ever View Post
I was driving earlier this evening and had the radio off. I heard this like high pitched whining when accelerating and it would wind down when I would decelerate.

I don't know how long this has been going on because I usually have the radio on. I'm not quite sure whether to drive it or have AAA tow it to Saturn.

I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know if it was a belt slipping or if it is the transmission (I just had the transmission flushed at EZ-Lube on Thursday).

Any idea?

Thanks..
Check for whine while setting still by revving engine in PARK.

If no whine in PARK try a little road test.

I believe I'd accelerate to 20 - 30 mph and carefully move gear selector to neutral and see if whine is still present.

I'd then find a level street or parking lot and after building speed to 10 or so mile per hour ... go to neutral to see if the Vue coasts to a gentle stop as
opposed to acting if brakes were applied (or some other part of drive-line is binding).

If vehicle rolls smoothly its OK to drive to EZ-Lube for them to listen.

It could be too much, or not enough ATF ... and if you have the Honda 5AT transmission, make sure they used correct ATF-Z1, or equivalent fluid, and not some Dex-Merc-Cooking-oil blend.
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

I hope they didn't use the wrong atf. the Z1 is expensive stuff. they might have used some cheap crap.

remember, with the Honda 3.5, the trans fluid is checked with the vehicle off. not running.


if you're lucky, it's just a wheel bearing or something.
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Old 10-04-2009, 01:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

Dang it.. I had a post done, but for some reason it disappeared.

Anyway, I will try far2grumpy's instructions and see how it goes. They didn't use the Honda Z1 - they used Mobil One that said it was the equiv to the Z1, which I don't buy for a minute.

I may just go and buy some Z1 and have them refill it with that.

I'm gonna have to take a Auto class at my local college, because I really hate not being able to work on my car.
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Originally Posted by Saturngirl4ever View Post
I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know if it was a belt slipping or if it is the transmission (I just had the transmission flushed at EZ-Lube on Thursday).
Ditto on the transmission... Never trust places like this for service...

Honda automatics are very sensitive to it's fluid. Use Honda or Acura Z1 fluid only.

Sadly you may need to get two or three transmission fluid changes with the proper Honda Z1 fluid to get that cheap fluid out...
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

Cheap stuff??? I don't know how much Honda z1 atf costs but Mobil 1 atf is about $15/litre up here in canada since it's synthetic.
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

How exactly do I do a transmission flush? I'm not above doing that myself - I looked up EZ Lube online and man - too many complaints. Even though I use Mobil One for my oil, I don't trust the Mobil One for my transmission. UGH>
They used 15 quarts at 7.99qt.. about $118 JUST for the fluid. Yikes.. How much does it regularly take so I know how much to buy?

Is this easy or hard? I don't want to have to take it anywhere if I can help it.

Thanks alot guys.. I really appreciate your help :-)
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Old 10-04-2009, 05:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

I NEVER take my car to those places. I don't trust them. And if they did use the wrong fluid, they need to pay to have it flushed out and refilled, not you. You paid them to do a job and they didn't do it right, then it's their problem.

The problem with those places as I see it, is that some of them hire these kids out of high school and don't pay them much. The kids figure that it's a temp job, so they don't care. They also aren't trained to pay attention to little details such as the Honda engine in the Saturn. They see GM and put in regular Dex-Merc fluid and then the customer is the one who gets it in the end.

Sorry, but that's just my opinion because I've seen some of those cars come into dealerships with toasted engines and trannies after having those quick lube type places work on them. One guy had a brand new KIA and after Walmart changed the oil (left the old gasket on with the new one) the oil filter blew off and fried his engine. Walmart had to pay for a new engine and a rental for the guy. Took a month for the engine to come in because the car was new on the market.

Also, I paid just over $6 a bottle for the Honda stuff.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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I NEVER take my car to those places. I don't trust them. And if they did use the wrong fluid, they need to pay to have it flushed out and refilled, not you. You paid them to do a job and they didn't do it right, then it's their problem.

The problem with those places as I see it, is that some of them hire these kids out of high school and don't pay them much. The kids figure that it's a temp job, so they don't care. They also aren't trained to pay attention to little details such as the Honda engine in the Saturn. They see GM and put in regular Dex-Merc fluid and then the customer is the one who gets it in the end.

Sorry, but that's just my opinion because I've seen some of those cars come into dealerships with toasted engines and trannies after having those quick lube type places work on them. One guy had a brand new KIA and after Walmart changed the oil (left the old gasket on with the new one) the oil filter blew off and fried his engine. Walmart had to pay for a new engine and a rental for the guy. Took a month for the engine to come in because the car was new on the market.

Also, I paid just over $6 a bottle for the Honda stuff.

I'm kinda starting to agree with you there. THey did use Mobil One Synthetic, which does say that it is an equiv to the Z1, but I find it strange that the sound wasn't there BEFORE I took it to the place.

I'm just going to drain and refill the thing with the Z1 -I think it was about $8 last time I got it at the Honda dealer.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturngirl4ever View Post
I'm kinda starting to agree with you there. THey did use Mobil One Synthetic, which does say that it is an equiv to the Z1, but I find it strange that the sound wasn't there BEFORE I took it to the place.

I'm just going to drain and refill the thing with the Z1 -I think it was about $8 last time I got it at the Honda dealer.
Saturngirl4ever ... many folks - me included - won't do a flush under threat of unmentionable harm. In theory, the flush is supposed to push all the old fluid from the transmission and replace with new fluid.

Keeping in mind the automatic transmission is an amazingly complex device, we also realize the beast is full of valves, relays (solenoids) and of most importance, many very small passages intended to route fluid here and there to carry out automatic functions.

What many think can happen - is the flush - if completed in reverse of normal fluid flow - will push debris into one or more valves and / or passages and cause more harm than good.

I changed the ATF in my 05 Vue at 35,000 miles - I drained four quarts and replaced with GM-ATF-Z1. About 2000 miles later I did the same - four quarts out and replaced with Honda Z1 because our Saturn store closed. And finally, at about 40,000 miles I swapped ATF again using Honda Z1.

If I keep the Vue I intend to swap fluid again between 50 and 60,000 miles. The fluid is pricey ($9.50 per quart here) but, if it keeps the transmission happy, I'm happy.

BTW ... I suggest you take your Vue back to the lube shop before replacing any fluid ... let them hear the new noise and provide an opinion. It could be something simple, or even preexisting, but don't let em off the hook too easily.
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
Check for whine while setting still by revving engine in PARK.

If no whine in PARK try a little road test.

I believe I'd accelerate to 20 - 30 mph and carefully move gear selector to neutral and see if whine is still present.

I'd then find a level street or parking lot and after building speed to 10 or so mile per hour ... go to neutral to see if the Vue coasts to a gentle stop as
opposed to acting if brakes were applied (or some other part of drive-line is binding).

If vehicle rolls smoothly its OK to drive to EZ-Lube for them to listen.

It could be too much, or not enough ATF ... and if you have the Honda 5AT transmission, make sure they used correct ATF-Z1, or equivalent fluid, and not some Dex-Merc-Cooking-oil blend.
I forgot to post my experience with this. It didn't whine when rev'd in Park. It did whine when going to 20-30mph then carefully going into Neutral.

So - when doing the 3rd - going 10 mph then putting in Neutral - it coasted to a stop, just like it normally would.


So - should I buy some of the Z1 tomorrow morning in case they want to do another flush when I take it back to EZ Lube? I don't want to be unprepared - or should I just insist no flush if that is what they recommend?
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Originally Posted by Saturngirl4ever View Post
How exactly do I do a transmission flush? I'm not above doing that myself - I looked up EZ Lube online and man - too many complaints. Even though I use Mobil One for my oil, I don't trust the Mobil One for my transmission. UGH>
They used 15 quarts at 7.99qt.. about $118 JUST for the fluid. Yikes.. How much does it regularly take so I know how much to buy?

Is this easy or hard? I don't want to have to take it anywhere if I can help it.

Thanks alot guys.. I really appreciate your help :-)
The Honda transmission requires 4.5 qts on a typical drain. It's not that hard to drain and fill. There's been many posts on this forum how to do this. Do a search.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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The Honda transmission requires 4.5 qts on a typical drain. It's not that hard to drain and fill. There's been many posts on this forum how to do this. Do a search.
I found the instructions after I posted this. I'm still looking for the timing belt instructions, but since I don't need that right now, I'll find it later.

I started up the car this morning to take it in, and realized that when my radion is in the AV position (I have an aftermarket Pioneer and the AV is so I can play my Ipod) the noise is ONLY heard when the radio is on AV. I tried the CD - no noise. None with the radio either.

I took it in anyway and they are supposed to call me - but I am thinking that maybe now it wasn't so much a need to worry over - I won't worry until the shop calls me back.

That was strange though - maybe the engine/tranny noise coming through the radio - is that normal?

Laura :-)
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Originally Posted by Saturngirl4ever View Post

That was strange though - maybe the engine/tranny noise coming through the radio - is that normal?

Laura :-)
no your radio probably wasn't properly grounded when install
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Originally Posted by Saturngirl4ever View Post
I found the instructions after I posted this. I'm still looking for the timing belt instructions, but since I don't need that right now, I'll find it later.

I started up the car this morning to take it in, and realized that when my radion is in the AV position (I have an aftermarket Pioneer and the AV is so I can play my Ipod) the noise is ONLY heard when the radio is on AV. I tried the CD - no noise. None with the radio either.

I took it in anyway and they are supposed to call me - but I am thinking that maybe now it wasn't so much a need to worry over - I won't worry until the shop calls me back.

That was strange though - maybe the engine/tranny noise coming through the radio - is that normal?

Laura :-)
Glad to hear that it's not your AT.

Most aftermarket radios are not as well filtered as factory radios. The AUX input may be noiser. Depending on how "hot" your iPod or whatever you are using on your AUX, noise can be heard because you may need be running the volume control higher on your radio.

If you can increase the audio level of your AUX device you can run your radio volume control lower and the audio will stay louder than the noise.

Like saturn69 said improving the radio ground could possibly help.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Saturngirl4ever ... many folks - me included - won't do a flush under threat of unmentionable harm. In theory, the flush is supposed to push all the old fluid from the transmission and replace with new fluid.

Keeping in mind the automatic transmission is an amazingly complex device, we also realize the beast is full of valves, relays (solenoids) and of most importance, many very small passages intended to route fluid here and there to carry out automatic functions.

What many think can happen - is the flush - if completed in reverse of normal fluid flow - will push debris into one or more valves and / or passages and cause more harm than good.

I changed the ATF in my 05 Vue at 35,000 miles - I drained four quarts and replaced with GM-ATF-Z1. About 2000 miles later I did the same - four quarts out and replaced with Honda Z1 because our Saturn store closed. And finally, at about 40,000 miles I swapped ATF again using Honda Z1.

If I keep the Vue I intend to swap fluid again between 50 and 60,000 miles. The fluid is pricey ($9.50 per quart here) but, if it keeps the transmission happy, I'm happy.

BTW ... I suggest you take your Vue back to the lube shop before replacing any fluid ... let them hear the new noise and provide an opinion. It could be something simple, or even preexisting, but don't let em off the hook too easily.
You see, this is part of the problem. Everybody, including the service men, call a TOTAL FLUID EXCHANGE a 'flush', when it is not. Here's how it's done; They take the trans fluid cooling lines loose from the cooler - the line TO the cooler is connected to the supply line to the machine, and the line TO the trans is connected to the output of the machine. There is no pump in the machine - it's just a transparent cylinder with a floating piston. New fluid is on one side of the piston. The engine is started and the trans INTERNAL pump circulates the oil to the trans cooler - but the lines have been diverted, so the old trans fluid goes into the cylinder behind the piston, pushing it forward. This pushes the new fluid back into the trans just as if it were coming back from the oil cooler. They usually put a couple of quarts extra in the cylinder to make sure they get all the old oil. There's no way to overfill the trans - if you could keep adding new fluid to the cylinder, it would just keep pumping the old out and the new in. Anybody that says this is harmful is just wrong. Nothing is flushed or 'dislodged' - they simply put new fluid in the return line as the old is pumped out (note: there is a transmission flush product that they can add to the fluid - just don't let them do it if the fluid isn't too bad). The trans is normally circulating the fluid as long as the engine is running, so this is nothing different than that. All fluid is exchanged, including the torque converter. This is the fast, easy way to do it. I do it the other way - I drain the 4.5 quarts and replace it, doing this about every year to keep the fluid fresh.
I'm glad it was the radio - that was my first thought, but I saw that you had solved it by the time I read the post. Hopefully you didn't waste your time and money changing the trans fluid again.
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
You see, this is part of the problem. Everybody, including the service men, call a TOTAL FLUID EXCHANGE a 'flush', when it is not. Here's how it's done; They take the trans fluid cooling lines loose from the cooler - the line TO the cooler is connected to the supply line to the machine, and the line TO the trans is connected to the output of the machine. There is no pump in the machine - it's just a transparent cylinder with a floating piston. New fluid is on one side of the piston. The engine is started and the trans INTERNAL pump circulates the oil to the trans cooler - but the lines have been diverted, so the old trans fluid goes into the cylinder behind the piston, pushing it forward. This pushes the new fluid back into the trans just as if it were coming back from the oil cooler. They usually put a couple of quarts extra in the cylinder to make sure they get all the old oil. There's no way to overfill the trans - if you could keep adding new fluid to the cylinder, it would just keep pumping the old out and the new in. Anybody that says this is harmful is just wrong. Nothing is flushed or 'dislodged' - they simply put new fluid in the return line as the old is pumped out (note: there is a transmission flush product that they can add to the fluid - just don't let them do it if the fluid isn't too bad). The trans is normally circulating the fluid as long as the engine is running, so this is nothing different than that. All fluid is exchanged, including the torque converter. This is the fast, easy way to do it. I do it the other way - I drain the 4.5 quarts and replace it, doing this about every year to keep the fluid fresh.
I'm glad it was the radio - that was my first thought, but I saw that you had solved it by the time I read the post. Hopefully you didn't waste your time and money changing the trans fluid again.
1saxman ... if we lived in a perfect world your answer would be "spot-on".

I, one the other hand, see a conspiracy around every corner and also think I understand the difference between fluid-swap, or replenishment, and the good (not) old fashioned "flush" that has kept far too many transmission shops in business for many years.

The thread at the end of this post came up when I searched on transmission flush and it describes what I think of when I hear the word ... back-pressure with combination of solvents and fluids to cure ALL known problems with automatic transmissions.

The difference could be you are familiar with the E-Z Lube chain and are sure they are on the up-and-up. I - on the other hand - am a suspicious old coot, who's seen too many of these folks around, and know for certain a few tend to prey on naive patrons ... including selling a lot of transmission "flushes".

http://autotechrepair.suite101.com/article.cfm/040206
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

Seems to me a lot of people on this forum are anal about Honda/Saturn Z1 atf and the need to use that product exclusively. Mobil 1 atf is a much better product, Amsoil atf even better, and completely compatible. Everyone on this forum jumps on the atf as the cause for every strange behaviour or noise, even RADIO noise.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

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Seems to me a lot of people on this forum are anal about Honda/Saturn Z1 atf and the need to use that product exclusively. Mobil 1 atf is a much better product, Amsoil atf even better, and completely compatible. Everyone on this forum jumps on the atf as the cause for every strange behaviour or noise, even RADIO noise.
MigL ... you make good points ... just wondering how many miles you have on your Vue / Honda transmission and which of the fluids you currently use?

BTW ... I don't know how much a quart of Mobil 1 ATF cost but best price I could find for AMSOIL ATF was 9.75 per quart. Thats actually a little higher than ATF-Z1.
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: Whining on acceleration

I did a lot of research ( see the oil bible ) and had past experience with using Mobil ! atf in my old JEEP Grand Cherokee. From everything I've read Amsoil atf is the way to go. Dropped about 4.5 quarts of 'brownish' fluid and refilled with Amsoil atf yesterday. I have 66000km on an '06 fwd/v6 Vue and only experienced the rpm wonder a few times in the last 6 months. Also put in 0W20 fully synthetic Amsoil engine oil last week.
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