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Old 01-26-2009, 09:54 PM   #1
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Default Negativity?

I forget who the guy was who was railing on people for "being negative."

OK...so if I see a bear scooping a salmon out of the river am I "negative" when I say...Gee, it looks like that salmon is going to get eaten?

I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em. I take no joy in seeing Saturn flame out. It's not unexpected, but not something I relish seeing either. For those that can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen or learn how to ignore the smoke alarm.

Cheers,
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Negativity?

People just don't want to see the obvious truths because they like their Saturns. Incidentally, those Saturns are largely unrelated to the current crop of Saturns. Those who have a newer Saturn could do just as well by the same car at a different division. Except Sky owners, the Sky is more personal roadster whereas the Solstice is more sports roadster.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:47 PM   #3
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Arrow Re: Negativity?

I posted a variation of the following message in another post, but it applies here as well. I think the "troll" and "negativity" accusations come as a result of the same set of folks posting the same general "boo-hiss" messages about the future of Saturn over and over and over again. If there's new information about Saturn's demise, then let's discuss it... but until then spreading rumors/misinformation/opinion as fact should stop. I've yet to see an official statement from GM management that says they are closing or selling Saturn. They've said they're looking at options and looking for new ways of running the business. For some reason some media outlets equate GM's statement about "exploring options" with selling or closing the brand. I understand that with the company evaluating "all options," the latter is possible, but there are also 18 other options that are possible as well. I tend not to put a lot of stock in all the conspiracy theories about Saturn's premature closure.

Incidentally, its interesting that the same 20 or so folks post the same "negative" posts about Saturn over and over again, while several thousand SF visitors have signed the "SAVE SATURN" petition asking GM to keep Saturn around. They seem to have chosen not to get involved with all of the bickering...

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Old 01-26-2009, 11:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Negativity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
I forget who the guy was who was railing on people for "being negative."

OK...so if I see a bear scooping a salmon out of the river am I "negative" when I say...Gee, it looks like that salmon is going to get eaten?

I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em. I take no joy in seeing Saturn flame out. It's not unexpected, but not something I relish seeing either. For those that can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen or learn how to ignore the smoke alarm.

Cheers,
No, but it makes no sense poison the river then say "the salmon were going to die anyways". There's nothing wrong with discussing the Saturn issue both good and bad, but when it starts turning into negative posts aimed at provoking others against Saturn that is something completely different and unhealthy. Today brought out good news for Saturn owners. We should all take a breather, look back and realize how fortunate we are to have this camaraderie we have. Hopefully, we are all on the same side and want Saturn to succeed.
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Negativity?

Its hard to trust GM, given how they did nothing but try to kill the division since it started. I remember vividly an older gentleman(who had worked for GM before retiring) coming up to me shortly after I bought my SC telling me how Saturn was bleeding the other brands dry, and a whole lotta other completely wrong stuff(non union, made in Japan, etc..) about the car. Wow, 1 car did all that, eh?

I believe that when you polarize peoples opinions, you gotta be doing something right. Perhaps its a generational thing. I don't believe I'm being negative when I say I don't have faith in GM to not screw it up. I would like nothing more for the company to survive...but lets be realistic...if they change so much of what we like, or used to like, what's the point?
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: Negativity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Incidentally, its interesting that the same 20 or so folks post the same "negative" posts about Saturn over and over again, while several thousand SF visitors have signed the "SAVE SATURN" petition asking GM to keep Saturn around. They seem to have chosen not to get involved with all of the bickering...

Charlie
I'll gladly sign a "Bring back the American built Saturns with dent resistant bodies" petition, but I choose not to sign the "Save Saturn" petition, as I feel that GM has already abandoned everything that made Saturn what it was, and I don't really care for the current Opels regardless of what logo is on the badge.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: Negativity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2 View Post
I'll gladly sign a "Bring back the American built Saturns with dent resistant bodies" petition, but I choose not to sign the "Save Saturn" petition, as I feel that GM has already abandoned everything that made Saturn what it was, and I don't really care for the current Opels regardless of what logo is on the badge.
Took the words right out of my mouth....'cept the Opel part. Some of the Opels are nice...they should just bring them over here and call them OPEL since people associate that brand with Europe. Maybe THEN they can sell that product up market. Food for thought.

Anyway, I've been a Saturn customer since almost the beginning (1993) and I also frequently help owners in the forums with their car troubles and questions. I also was one of the "defenders of the faith" on the saturn usenet group for years. I guess I've come full circle now that GM has gutted the brand. If some folks can't deal with my brutal honesty and my "negativity" it is really easy to put me on ignore. I won't mind at all. Ignoring the world around us and hoping that happy thoughts will carry the day is not my style and isn't a very useful strategy in this crazy world of ours.

Cheers,

Last edited by Ritz; 01-27-2009 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: Negativity?

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Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
Took the words right out of my mouth....'cept the Opel part. Some of the Opels are nice...they should just bring them over here and call them OPEL since people associate that brand with Europe. Maybe THEN they can sell that product up market. Food for thought.

Anyway, I've been a Saturn customer since almost the beginning (1993) and I also frequently help owners in the forums with their car troubles and questions. I also was one of the "defenders of the faith" on the saturn usenet group for years. I guess I've come full circle now that GM has gutted the brand. If some folks can't deal with my brutal honesty and my "negativity" it is really easy to put me on ignore. I won't mind at all. Ignoring the world around us and hoping that happy thoughts will carry the day is not my style and isn't a very useful strategy in this crazy world of ours.

Cheers,
+1 Speaking as someone who both worked for the "original" or if you prefer, "real" Saturn in the 90's, and also owned a real Opel back in the 70's. There was nothing wrong with either, which of course is why GM.... oh. never mind there I go again.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Negativity?

Been a Saturn owner/driver since 92-93. Drove an AMC before that, so buying American, supporting domestic car makers, etc., are things I am proud to do, but I'm not going to close my eyes and pretend that GM isn't in serious trouble.

Heck, I bought GM shares at $10, thinking it was a bargain and I was putting my money where my mouth was and showing support.

I'll still buy a GM car or a used Saturn, but I've said that all along. I am just open to German and Japanese cars now as well and will still go for the best bang for the buck.

Still plan on keeping my Ion for as long as possible and I still like my Ion far more than my SL2, but both are great cars.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: Negativity?

I'd buy American(probably not another GM-nothing that interests me), German, Swedish, Italian, or 1 or 2 of the Infinitis and Lexuses.

My next car will like be an Audi.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: Negativity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marx404 View Post
There's nothing wrong with discussing the Saturn issue both good and bad, but when it starts turning into negative posts aimed at provoking others against Saturn that is something completely different and unhealthy.
That is pretty much how I feel, too, which is why I do not post in those discussions and usually do not even bother to read them anymore. It has gone beyond just beating a dead horse - the horse is now ground meat. Like Charlie keeps trying to tell people - nothing is written in stone, yet, and everything else is just speculation.

BTW, I still love my (third) Saturn.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: Negativity?

[QUOTE=FGCA_XRL;1389832 My next car will like be an Audi.[/QUOTE]

Be prepared for horrendous costs, both for service and parts.
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:10 AM   #13
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Be prepared for horrendous costs, both for service and parts.
Not any worse than most other European cars. German cars are built with the expectation that they will be maintained per the recommendations of the manufacturer. Skimp on this, and you'll get bitten in the fanny. I've owned a number of Porsche/Audi/VW cars and haven't yet been bitten by anything that wouldn't be classified as routine maintenance. I wish I could say the same for my VUE (passed 36k yesterday...sigh).

Cheers,
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Negativity?

[QUOTE=Ritz;1389909]Not any worse than most other European cars.
QUOTE]


You're right. They're all horrendously expensive to maintain outside of warranty.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Negativity?

[QUOTE=bigbird;1389988]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
Not any worse than most other European cars.
QUOTE]


You're right. They're all horrendously expensive to maintain outside of warranty.
Again, that hasn't been my experience. But I religiously maintain all my vehicles.

Cheers,
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: Negativity?

Can we have a new negativity forum so some of us can ignore it?

This fotovue btw, posting as my wife.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Negativity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
Not any worse than most other European cars. German cars are built with the expectation that they will be maintained per the recommendations of the manufacturer. Skimp on this, and you'll get bitten in the fanny. I've owned a number of Porsche/Audi/VW cars and haven't yet been bitten by anything that wouldn't be classified as routine maintenance. I wish I could say the same for my VUE (passed 36k yesterday...sigh).

Cheers,
Plus do it yourself or find a decent private mechanic and you'll save even more. I've owned both an Audi and an Acura and parts for the Audi cost less. Especially on the minor stuff like air/oil filters and brake pads.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:46 PM   #18
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Can we have a new negativity forum so some of us can ignore it?

This fotovue btw, posting as my wife.
Are we being negative about negativity?
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Negativity?

My oh my, look at what this thread has also become.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Negativity?

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My oh my, look at what this thread has also become.
Not from me. I'm thinking positively. Saturn will be going back to its roots and manufacturing inexpensive small vehicles with polymer cladding in Springhill TN. Just like the old days. Wishful thinking.
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