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Old 12-17-2018, 09:45 AM   #1
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Default Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

I am looking to do a full swap, engine, transmission, front suspension- everything all together from the front of the car- from a 2002 SC1 to a 2001 SC2. I was in a bad accident in the SC1 and the other driver had no insurance and totaled my car, but the damage is almost all in the back and my car only has 50,000 miles on it. I have the clean, undamaged body of an 2001 SC2 for the switch.

I am looking for input on any differences and adjustments I need to make between the two cars, and how much the computer controls- like, the SC1 has crank windows and no electric locks- the SC2 has electric everything plus a sunroof etc. Will those things work with the swap? Or do I need an SC2 computer? Any help, advice and input is greatly appreciated.

Also, I am especially concerned with taking off the shifter cable, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to remove it without damage.

Thanks in advance for tips and advice!
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:16 AM   #2
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

You'll need to have the SC2 PCM reprogrammed for the SOHC engine, if the transmissions are different. So, you will want to check the Service Parts Identification tag on your spare tire cover, for the RPO code "MP7", on the SC2.

If "MP7" is present, then the car originally had an auto transmission, and the PCMs are different between manual and automatics on the 2000-2002 Saturn S-Series.

As far as other changes, the wiring, engine, transmission, and suspension can be dropped out the bottom while completely still bolted to the cradle. This is how they were assembled at the factory. Even the wiring stays with the engine.

You will need to swap your air intake system and air filter, a lot of your cooling hoses will need to be swapped.

The center console, shifter, shift cables and your clutch pedal(if the SC2 was automatic), and the hydraulic system will need to be swapped over, as well.

It is a lot of work to do what you are doing, but it can certainly be done.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

The power locks, power windows, etc., are controlled by the Body Control Module on 2000-2002 Saturn S-Series. So, these should still function.

Your tachometer and speedometer may be off, until you have a GM dealer reprogram the PCM for the MP2 transmission out of your SC1.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

SC1 = SOHC engine, SC2- DOHC engine.

You either need to flash the SC2 computer (PCM) or bring the PCM over from the SC1. It's the silver box behind the battery.

Your 3rd gen car also has a separate BCM (body control module) that holds certain things like the mileage. PCMs are matched to BCMs.

You probably want to bring the BCM (under the top dash panel towards the center of the car) over as well, since you had low miles (mileage stored in the BCM). Otherwise, you need a Tech2 or equivalent to "introduce" the PCM to the BCM.

This is what the BCM controls (thanks, Low Saturn!)
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...04&postcount=8

Shifter cable how to (assuming a manual transmission?)

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=160664

You will probably have to cut the shifter bushing (at bottom of shifter mechanism under the knob). Look for Saturnbushingman or saturnbushinghennie on ebay for a new one, either Delrin or Stainless Steel.

SC1 has a 110 mph speedo, SC2 has a 130 mph speedo, but I think it will still read the speed correctly. You can check after the swap with a GPS or something, an swap the instrument panel if it is reading wrong.

Why are you bringing the suspension over? engine and trans, I can see.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

You can only swap a single part of the security chain at a time or it all locks up and you are on the hook for a tow to the dealer. Your best bet is to replace the existing engine with an exact replacement, DOHC or SOHC as originaly installed. The only way swapping in a new non matching engine is even a credible task is IF you already have experience in dealing with all of the engine/body/passlock computer issues.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
You can only swap a single part of the security chain at a time or it all locks up and you are on the hook for a tow to the dealer.
Shouldn't OP be OK if he brings over both the PCM and the matching BCM from the SC1?
(to go along with the engine and trans he's bringing over)
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Swapping the PCM from the SC1 to the SC2 is a trivial task.
There is a passlock procedure which can be found here:

https://sixthsphere.com/showthread.p...n-PCM-Swapping

Not sure why everyone is trying to over-complicate that process.
There should be no issue mating a different PCM to the BCM thats already in the car. It has been done numerous times before. I suppose it would be recommended to swap the PCM first, do the passlock procedure with the existing SC2 engine, make sure it starts up/runs on the SC1 PCM, then begin the process of swapping everything else from the SC1 over to the SC2.

Let us know if you have questions.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Your tachometer and speedometer may be off, until you have a GM dealer reprogram the PCM for the MP2 transmission out of your SC1.
No they will not. The VSS and Crank sensors/signals are the same for all the S-series.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

I'll also ask why you would like to swap the parts on to the SC2 in the first place? Is there something wrong with that car or is it purely to retain the low mileage parts that came from your SC1?

As far as removing the shift cable from the shifter, I'll see if I can demonstrate a removable method with some spare parts I have.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Thank you so much for all the input and help! I will be posting pictures as I begin work and will probably ask a lot of more specific questions.

Just a note, both transmissions are automatic, there seems to be some confusion about that.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
I'll also ask why you would like to swap the parts on to the SC2 in the first place? Is there something wrong with that car or is it purely to retain the low mileage parts that came from your SC1?

As far as removing the shift cable from the shifter, I'll see if I can demonstrate a removable method with some spare parts I have.
Thank you in advance! It's very confusing to me (PS it's an automatic transmission, some people seem to think it's manual for some reason so I wanted to clarify).

I am swapping because my SC 1 was totaled in an accident, but hit from the back, so my low mileage engine/transmission and all is just fine, and I have an SC 2 body to which I can switch everything over.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
SC1 = SOHC engine, SC2- DOHC engine.

You either need to flash the SC2 computer (PCM) or bring the PCM over from the SC1. It's the silver box behind the battery.

Your 3rd gen car also has a separate BCM (body control module) that holds certain things like the mileage. PCMs are matched to BCMs.

You probably want to bring the BCM (under the top dash panel towards the center of the car) over as well, since you had low miles (mileage stored in the BCM). Otherwise, you need a Tech2 or equivalent to "introduce" the PCM to the BCM.

This is what the BCM controls (thanks, Low Saturn!)


Shifter cable how to (assuming a manual transmission?)

You will probably have to cut the shifter bushing (at bottom of shifter mechanism under the knob). Look for Saturnbushingman or saturnbushinghennie on ebay for a new one, either Delrin or Stainless Steel.

SC1 has a 110 mph speedo, SC2 has a 130 mph speedo, but I think it will still read the speed correctly. You can check after the swap with a GPS or something, an swap the instrument panel if it is reading wrong.

Why are you bringing the suspension over? engine and trans, I can see.
Thank you for your help! I plan to bring the computer from the SC1 so there should hopefully be no problem.

Okay, that's good to know,I will bring the BCM over too.

The transmission is automatic, not manual. I have tried to take the shifter cable off a previous Saturn and had a lot of trouble with it.

Good thought on swapping the instrument panel, hopefully I won't have to but I will if I must (shouldn't be a problem compared with swapping the engine ad all lol)

I am bringing the front suspension because it comes down as a cradle assembly with the engine, wiring and transmission. I will take everything altogether to make it easier.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

3rd gens don't care about the cluster like 1st and 2nd gens do. Put whatever cluster in you feel like...even if it's a L-Series or Vue or Torrent (full swap list).

Not sure what the issue could be with the shifter cable...pop it off with a large screwdriver or pry bar. The automatic cable is easier to work with than the manual cables, between that and the lack of specification in the first post is why we were all confused.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

There's no need to change the BCMs. The SC2 BCM will mate fine with the SC1 PCM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 02:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
No they will not. The VSS and Crank sensors/signals are the same for all the S-series.
VSS programming in the PCM is based on sensor rpms within the transmission, hence why the transmission makes the PCMs non-interchangeable when they are different on a third gen.

While the part number for the VSS sensor is identical on all years, the PCM programing is different, thus a PCM calibrated for an MP3 and 195/60R15 tires, will read incorrect speed output signals with an MP2 and 185/70 R14 tires. This is part of the reason why auto PCMs lose cruise control, when performing a manual swap without reprogramming the PCM.

A PCM for an MP2, with 185/70 R14 tires will interpret a final drive ratio of 4.063:1, a 5th gear of .605:1/.643:1, and tire rotational speeds are affected by this.

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/...rpm-calculator

http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/ti...e_diameter.htm

Swapping the BCM & PCM will NOT work, from the donor car, because the ignition switch and the key are also coded.

I just had to explain this same thing to FB users, over the Saturn facebook pages, a few weeks ago. It is also one of the reasons why I can't stand dealing with newer cars, as it makes them considerably more difficult and expensive to repair.

So, with the .605:1 ratio, final drive of 4.063:1, and P185/70 R14 tires, when the engine is at 2,000 rpms, the vehicle is traveling at 58.59mph.

The VSS will make a certain number of revolutions, amd the PCM is programmed to accurately calculate that information, so the speedometer displays the correct speed of the car, and GM uses quartz accuracy with their VSS sensors.

Now, changing just the gear ratio, without the tire size: vehicle speed is 55.13mph @ 2,000rpms

My SC2 runs around 50mph @ 2,000rpms, with a 4.133:1 final, .700:1 4th, and P195/60 R15 tires.

In all three scenarios, the vehicle is traveling different distances, over the exact same time, because they are driving at different speeds, because the final drive and tire revolutional speeds are different. The VSS speed is different, also, but if the PCM is not calibrated to the correct tire/wheel/gear ratio sizes, it will interpret the VSS gear speed incorrectly and display an incorrect speed value on the speedometer.

You should really try buying a car that has a cable speedometer, and change only the rear axle ratio of that car, without changing the tire sizes or the magnet gear on the speedometer. The same thing will happen.

Now, changing the tire size, with the same gear ratios will NOT cause as much of an issue, because the P185/70 R14 & the P195/60 R15 differences in speed of .04 mph, which is what a tire shop calls a "+1 sizing". A car with a final of 4.063:1, a 5th of .605:1, an engine speed of 2,000 rpms, and tire size of 195/60 R15 will have a speed of 58.63mph.
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Old 12-23-2018, 07:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Thank you so much everyone for all of the input and advice, I really appreciated it!

I have begun with the engine removal from the wrecked Saturn, a few pictures are below. I have disconnected most of the wires and sensors, the battery, steering, radiator hoses, ac lines, fuel lines, etc., and only have I believe a couple more wires and to get the shifter cable off (still struggling there! It comes off at the end but then there's that plastic piece inside that cast metal part that I am having a hard time getting out). After that I will hopefully tomorrow try put the engine on a pallet, raising the body above it. I'm going to try to do it on jacks/jack stands instead of a lift, we will see how it works out, I should have another update on all that tomorrow, when, fingers crossed, I will have the engine all the way out.
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Old 12-24-2018, 12:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnGirl02 View Post
Thank you in advance! It's very confusing to me (PS it's an automatic transmission, some people seem to think it's manual for some reason so I wanted to clarify).

I am swapping because my SC 1 was totaled in an accident, but hit from the back, so my low mileage engine/transmission and all is just fine, and I have an SC 2 body to which I can switch everything over.
The SC1 PCM will need to come over with the MP6/SOHC combo you are swapping. Difference is gear ratios, and the DOHC PCM will sense incorrect ratios and none of the gears will engage.

The PCM will need to be programmed to match the ignition and BCM of the SC2, as the mismatch will give you an issue with the security system.
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Old 12-24-2018, 11:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

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Swapping the BCM & PCM will NOT work, from the donor car, because the ignition switch and the key are also coded..
Have you ever tried to perform the PCM Passlock/mating procedure on a car before? I feel, as usual, you are commenting on something you don't have experience with.

There is no issue with mating a different PCM to the BCM that's in a vehicle. We (6s members) have done it numerous times going from The SOHC PCM to DOHC PCMs when get rid of the boat anchor that is the SOHC motor.

Hell, if you razor blade tabs off an Automatic PCM connector, you can use an Automatic PCM on a manual car to remove the Rev and speed limiters.

Please stop spreading misinformation.
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

Progress Update!

So my dad and I continued working on the car today, we disconnected the remaining wires as well as the brake lines and a few other things we'd missed, then we lowered the car and unbolted the engine, leaving it on the ground. We proceeded to raise the car above the engine on jacks and slid the engine out with a small jack partway underneath it, pulling with that while pushing the tires, and it is now completely out! Ready to go (with several days of work!) into the non-wrecked body. I will continue to post updates as we go!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:13 AM   #20
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Default Re: Engine Swap Advice (2002-2001 SC2-1)

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Progress Update!

So my dad and I continued working on the car today, we disconnected the remaining wires as well as the brake lines and a few other things we'd missed, then we lowered the car and unbolted the engine, leaving it on the ground. We proceeded to raise the car above the engine on jacks and slid the engine out with a small jack partway underneath it, pulling with that while pushing the tires, and it is now completely out! Ready to go (with several days of work!) into the non-wrecked body. I will continue to post updates as we go!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
Very impressive work. It took me 14 hours, with a cherry picker and hand tools(used an impact wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt), to do my engine swap on the '95 SC2.

Had a burnt valve in my #3 cylinder, from trying the SeaFoam treatment in both the fuel tank and soaking the pistons.

FYI, do not use any fuel additives, other than Lucas.
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