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Old 02-19-2014, 07:18 PM   #301
NickL30
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Sonds like a pretty good deal. I bought my car with an unfinished transmission swap. Went from auto to a manual transmission and they never swapped the computer. Good job on seeing it all the way through!
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:42 PM   #302
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Hey just an update. All my problems were from not using same tcm with same transmission. If you buy a tcm from one car and transmission from another they will cause funky stuff most times. If you use a matched set from an existing 4 door it will always work flawlessly.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:59 PM   #303
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Hi grasshopper,

I still havent gone to get my tcm reprogrammed, because I was thinking the other day that maybe I could pick up two more tcms, one from 2003 and another from 2004..... but from what you had just posted, I would need the exact tcm from the car my transmission came out of.... blah I might just deal with the huge knock

Thank you
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:54 AM   #304
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by g_munk View Post
Hi grasshopper,

I still havent gone to get my tcm reprogrammed, because I was thinking the other day that maybe I could pick up two more tcms, one from 2003 and another from 2004..... but from what you had just posted, I would need the exact tcm from the car my transmission came out of.... blah I might just deal with the huge knock

Thank you
You don't need the exact same one. Just one that had the same options, for example if your car has air, the TCM should come from a car that has air. I think reprogramming should take care of this. But, hey, who am I?
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:02 PM   #305
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Thank you looks like I am going to try the reprogram route then first.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:03 PM   #306
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by g_munk View Post
Hi grasshopper,

I still havent gone to get my tcm reprogrammed, because I was thinking the other day that maybe I could pick up two more tcms, one from 2003 and another from 2004..... but from what you had just posted, I would need the exact tcm from the car my transmission came out of.... blah I might just deal with the huge knock

Thank you
If your transmission is shifting through all gears and you do not currently have a check engine light telltale illuminated, then your TCM is more than likely fine.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the history of the AF23, but GM had A LOT of difficulty with the initial programming for the AF23 and it's big brother the AF33. Early '02/'03 V6 Vues and '03/'04 ION's had a lot of issues early on with shift flares and "drivability concerns" due to this poor transmission software.

GM finally got it right, but there were several owners who in the early days of the ION had their TCM's reprogrammed multiple times to address poor shift quality and odd transmission behaviors.

If you do not currently have any check engine lights related to transmission codes, I would recommend that you take your ION to your local GM dealer, or a mechanic with access to a Tech Tool 2 and GM SPS. They will need to do two things for you- 1) reprogram your TCM with the most current version of the AF23 software from SPS 2) reset the transmission adaptives in the TCM using the Tech Tool 2.

You will need to take a VIN number from an '03/'04 ION sedan (with an automatic transmission) with you, preferably from the same model year as your vehicle. The dealer tech will need to enter this VIN number into SPS to pull up the appropriate programming for the AF23, since your quad coupe did not originally come with this transmission. They will then reprogram your TCM from SPS. The transmission adaptives are then reset with the Tech Tool 2 to basically force the TCM to relearn all of it's shift patterns as if it were a new vehicle.

These two steps should resolve your knock/clunk. In my experience this is seldom a fault of the TCM, but rather an issue with the software stored on the TCM.

I've attached the service manual document on resetting the transmission adaptives in case your dealer/mechanic has any question on what needs to be done.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ION+Adaptive+Relearn.pdf (144.1 KB, 58 views)

Last edited by col_dude190; 03-18-2014 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:38 PM   #307
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Happy Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

I just wanted to give you guys a shout, and a big thank you! I have an 03 ion that I love, it had just rolled to 130,000 miles and the tranny died. I took it to the shop and they could not find the M75 anywhere. I finally found one for $2800, and was floored. I thought that it was the end for my "lady in red". I even called to get a junk price. Then I did a little research and found out what Saturn had done with a couple of these years and mine was one. I read this post several times and started searching. I found a donor car with 60k miles and went for it. Luckily the mechanic was willing to try something new.

After a few days of trial and error, we got her running
. I am happy to say that the first 60 miles have been pretty smooth, the only issue i could bring up would be a little rough shifting in the city, between first and second gears. Other than that, it runs better now than before!

Oh, and total we spent less than half of what another "bad" tranny would have cost!

2003 Ion automatic
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:20 AM   #308
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Its so weird to see all the postings On the TCM and everything to be year specific. Ive done many swaps with all my parts mismatched and had no problems at all. At least not software related. Ive just had problems with wires being cut and a trans solenoid being busted because of a crash. I just finished another quad gotta love this site!

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Old 03-27-2014, 09:26 AM   #309
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

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Originally Posted by Izzy21 View Post
Its so weird to see all the postings On the TCM and everything to be year specific. Ive done many swaps with all my parts mismatched and had no problems at all. At least not software related. Ive just had problems with wires being cut and a trans solenoid being busted because of a crash. I just finished another quad gotta love this site!
You know what makes these cars pop? It is a subtle thing but really makes a difference. Paint the mirrors and the small rectangular piece, body colour. BIG difference. Take a look at mine.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:42 AM   #310
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

It also helps to have a nice color like chili pepper red,
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:03 PM   #311
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

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It also helps to have a nice color like chili pepper red,
Only because this car kinda fell into my lap. When I first saw it, I had no idea what car it was, but I knew I had to have it(it was on a dealer's lot).

My 06 is Pacific Blue. Hmmm, maybe I should change my user name to pacific1327! lol!
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:45 PM   #312
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

I have almost pulled off the swap in my Ion but I have come into a problem. A code comes up that says communication with the TCM was lost. I have tried two different TCMs and the same thing happens. I bought a brand new wiring harness so I'm not sure what it could be. Any help is much appreciated.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:34 PM   #313
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

it sounds as it there is an open circuit somewhere, take your voltmeter and check continuity in the harness
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:26 PM   #314
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion FE View Post
I've recently purchased an 04 Quad Coupe and I almost positive from reading your blog, it's a VTI, being that and most of what I read, all QC's come with the VTI. How can I tell the difference in a VTI and an AF23 transmission, externally looking.

Thought the deal on the ION was unbelievable, so I got it. The car is in immaculate condition, leather, sunroof, power everything, one owner, etc., so for $1,200, I couldn't pass it up. The tranny is inop, (won't go into any gear) so I've read your entire blog and it sounds pretty simple.

This is my first ION experience, as I have dealt with MANY "s" series cars over the past 6-8 years and those tend to be my favorite.

Anyway, I enquired to some other Saturn enthusiasts as to why wouldn't some other tranny work in the ION and they were lost as well. Can't wait for them to read your swap blog.

Thanks!
I purchased a 2004 ION QC 2 weeks ago with the VTI. Did not know about these tranny's just got it cheap. Today I went to purchase an M43 from what I thought was a 4 door ION. Guy told me he had 2 cars and after looking at the pics one was a 2004 QC with M43 on trim tag and VIN. It is a factory installed M43 in a 2004 QC. I purchased the tranny and everything to make the swap including the shifter.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:09 PM   #315
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

does anyone have the rear mount, (part that bolts to the transmission , and the front mount for a af23? I need one of each to complete my project. thanks Shawn
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:41 AM   #316
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

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Originally Posted by ShawnL View Post
does anyone have the rear mount, (part that bolts to the transmission , and the front mount for a af23? I need one of each to complete my project. thanks Shawn
Do you need the rear trans mount or bracket?
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:42 PM   #317
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

when it comes to the shift cable bracket, how do u get it off the cable and will the vti cable work or do i need it from the 23 to?
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #318
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

Im currently doing this swap but a little confused about the harness. Do i just need a trans harness or!an engine harness too? I can find new trans harness for 100 bucks but cant find any used engine trans harness combos
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:53 AM   #319
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

its all one thing, found that out when at the junk yard last week
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:24 PM   #320
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Default Re: VTi to AF23 transmission swap

I remember reading that you need to take apart the place where the trans wiring goes into and replace it with the new wiring.
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