SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Outlook > Outlook General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-10-2008, 02:35 PM   #1
Bruce_Lee
Junior Member
Bruce_Lee is on a distinguished road
 
Bruce_Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 41
Default Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Hello everyone,

Here is my story. Excuse rant. (I know some of you will feel that I took it too personally/seriously, but I just felt like getting it off my chest.


So, my ’08 Outlook XR that I just purchase on Dec 29, 2007, had at about 3,200 miles of use. For most of February, I was still not sure if I would visit the local Saturn dealer or my local mechanic shop for my first oil change. But, being that I am very happy with my Outlook and wanting to start a ‘good/trustworthy’ relationship with my local Saturn dealer, I decided to forgo my local mechanic shop.

So, on Tuesday afternoon of last week, I called the my local dealer, Saturn of Fremont, to schedule an appointment for this service. Now, just so you know, I’ve read several posts about ‘Oil Changes’ here and in other Outlook forums. I was already aware of some issues owners have encountered with having their oil changed at other Saturn dealers – using wrong oil (none GM 6094) and spilling oil all over the ‘crossbar’. Also, I became aware the price that some dealers were charging for oil change: $31 for regular and about $61 or synthetic. When I called to make my appointment, for some reason, I strongly felt inclined to ask for a quote. So, the lady on the phone quoted me $29.95 for regular and $59.95 for synthetic, plus tax of course. This was inline with what I read. So I was all set up for Saturday morning at 8:00 am.

On this past Saturday, I get to my local dealer at 7:35 am. I am approached by one of the service person and I tell him I have an appt for an oil change. He takes my keys and writes down my information. He then writes down the mileage on my car: 3,210 miles. He then asked me how long I had the car and I told him that I had it since the New Year. I told him I wanted the ‘synthetic oil’. He then tells me that hell take care of it and asks me to go into the customer waiting area. But, before I go, I also tell him that I have the ‘squeaky brake pedal.’ He then tells me that he has heard of that issue and that all they need to do is to lubricate the a ‘rubber bushing’. Again, he says that they’ll take care of that problem. At this point, I felt uneasy, but I went and sat in the customer waiting area.

About 30 minutes later, the service person comes to talk to me and he is holding a yellow note book in which he has some numbers ($) written down. He begins to tell me that the oil change would be $79.99 because of the synthetic oil. I was really shocked. So I look at his notebook and see this price written down on it. I also look further down and I see a price quote of “total: $184.” He then starts to tell me that I need a ‘tire rotation’. At this point I was somewhat upset. I looked him in the eye and asked him if he was serious. He said it would help my tires last longer. I then get more upset, but stay calm, and point to him that the manual states that it isn’t necessary until 6,000 miles. He then says that it is true, but that they recommend I do it at about 5 months. At this point I felt like just asking for my keys back and walking out of that place. I remained calm and told him that I felt uneasy about this whole thing. I explained to him about the mileage on my car and that I’ve only had it for about 2 months and 10 days. I then tell him that I just want the regular oil change and not the synthetic. He then tells me that because synthetic is better, it costs more. At this point, I remembered what I was quoted on the phone and tell him. He looks surprised. He says that it is $29.95 for regular, but that for synthetic, they have to add $49 to that price. I told him, again, that I was quoted $29.95 or $59.95. He then gets up and walks to the cashier and I hear her say that she has never quoted any one those prices. I explain to this person that those quotes were given to me on Tuesday when I called to set up my appt. He sees that I am now upset and tells me that he was going to see what he could do for me.

He comes back about 20 minutes later and tries to explain to me why they want to charge me $29.95, -$7 (remove reg oil), and +49.95 for synthetic oil. He then says that because I was quoted $59.94 + tax, he was going to give me a discount to bring the price down to $60.00. He then tells me that I don’t need the tire rotation. I tell him that I am disappointed with this ‘situation’. He says that he didn’t realize that I only had the car for a couple of months.

Now, I this point I was sitting in the customer waiting area for about 3.5 hours waiting for my car. Towards the end, the service person approaches me again and tells me he is sorry for the ‘confusion’ regarding the tire rotation. But, that’s not the 'major' reason I got upset. I got upset when I saw “$184” written down on his notebook. In the beginning, I didn’t let him finish explaining to me how much the oil change and the tire rotation was going to cost me, but seeing that “$184” is what really made me uncomfortable about visiting this dealer. Even if I did need a tire rotation, were they going to charge me about $100 for doing it? Did I have a sign on me that said “I am a sucker”?

So, for all of you who are still waiting to get your first oil change, please ask for a price quote when you call to make an appointment. And also ask for the name of the person who takes your call.

Lastly, after 3.5 hours, they finished my car. I looked under the hood and sure enough, they spilled oil all over the ‘cross bar’ under the oil filter. I just took a deep breath, got into my car and drove off. Being inside my the car made me feel much better because I really like the interior.

Note: The ‘squeaky brake pedal’ issue seems to be gone. And also, it seems that the brakes feel more responsive/better. Oh well, I just going to continue enjoying my Outlook.
...
2008 Saturn Outlook XR FWD
Silver exter and ebony cloth interior
Navigation (w/ rear view camera)
Trailering Pkg.

No brand loyalty; My loyalty is to my money!
Bruce_Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-10-2008, 02:49 PM   #2
Gerry Proctor
Master Member
Gerry Proctor has a spectacular aura aboutGerry Proctor has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 2,682

2008 Astra XR
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

The tire rotation thing is a bit outrageous. You need to bring this to the attention of the GM. Service is what brings customers back to the sales room, and this service ain't gonna do that. I too would have been pretty steamed.
Gerry Proctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #3
onefunkar
Master Member
onefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the rough
 
onefunkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,510

2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

some places are pretty sad!!! it should have been an easy in and out oil change 15 minutes. now they lose a customer. anyone that would tell me i need a tire rotation on an outlook at 3k miles is reason to leave in itself. ALSO squeek in brake pedal has a service bulletin on it. mine does it also. they need to change the brake fluid. the noise isnt actually coming from the pedel even though it sounds like it
onefunkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 03:51 PM   #4
khansen30
Member
khansen30 is on a distinguished road
 
khansen30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amarillo TX
Posts: 286
2008 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

For what it's worth - If have had the synthetic oil twice now, twice I have been sent a coupon for $8 off from Castrol that the dealer honors, and twice now the oil change has cost me $39.99 after the coupon. For me it is worth it considering Jiffy Lube is clueless on customer service and this service would have cost more from them or others.

Your service department needs to get some lessons in customer service. Mine know my name on sight and take care of the needs I have and usually give me a discount (it helps that I bought two vehicles from them last year) on parts and service.

I have also had 1 tire rotation with my second oil change and the total bill was less than $100. If it were me, I would call Saturn dealerships in other towns and get quotes on the oil and tire change, average the total amounts and then go back to your dealership and fight for a lower price based on the other dealerships.

Good luck.
...
2009 GMC SLT2 Acadia (Mine)
Quicksilver - Titanium Leather
Everything

2008 Aura XR (Wifes)
Red Jewel - Tan Leather
Advanced Audio - Sunroof
khansen30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 04:29 PM   #5
onefunkar
Master Member
onefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the rough
 
onefunkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,510

2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

for what its worth here oil changes are 24 bucks but we give coupons for 18.88 and tire rotations are 25-30 i believe.
onefunkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 04:34 PM   #6
onefunkar
Master Member
onefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the rough
 
onefunkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,510

2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

also for 100 bucks per tire rotation it would be much cheaper to not do it. its not a mandatorey thing all it does is make your tires last longer. if you start paying 50 bucks a time it probaBLY isnt worth doing it. its cheaper to just buy tires when you need them at that price
onefunkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 04:39 PM   #7
Laguna
Junior Member
Laguna is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 19
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Wow... WOW.

First change coming up in a month or so for me.... got a coupon in the mail for $19.99 (synthetic extra). We'll see what they try to upsell me.

Can you tell me what to look for on the crossbar? Or link me to something that tells me?
Laguna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 04:45 PM   #8
onefunkar
Master Member
onefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the rough
 
onefunkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,510

2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

oil just drips on it when its changed. doesnt hurt anything but can drip for a few days on garage floor
onefunkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 04:57 PM   #9
Bruce_Lee
Junior Member
Bruce_Lee is on a distinguished road
 
Bruce_Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 41
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Thanks for your feed back.

I was really hoping to form a 'good' relationship whith this dealer. My local mechanic shop chargers $18.99 for a regular oil change. But, initially, I didn't mind paying extra (29.95 reg) as long as the Dealer was honest with me.

That "Total $184" that I saw is what irks me. I mean, were they really going to expect anyone to pay that much for an oil change (synth) and tire rotation? I could see how they would try that on an unsuspected lady, but just to the thought of them trying to squeeze more $$ out from a customer?realy makes me mad.

That is actually sad - that I can no longer trust Saturn of Fremont. They, the service dept, acted like car sales people - trying to get the most $$ out of you.

In the future, I will be contacting Saturn of Oakland and/or Saturn of San Jose. They are about 20 miles from where I live. But, I hope they are better then Saturn of Fremont.

Does any one here have any experience dealing with either of them?

thanks,

BL
...
2008 Saturn Outlook XR FWD
Silver exter and ebony cloth interior
Navigation (w/ rear view camera)
Trailering Pkg.

No brand loyalty; My loyalty is to my money!
Bruce_Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 05:01 PM   #10
onefunkar
Master Member
onefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the rough
 
onefunkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,510

2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

i wouldnt go back there either
onefunkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 05:07 PM   #11
Bowzer
Junior Member
Bowzer is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 11
Thumbs Down Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

A couple of things stand out to me on your experience: The service guy collected all the needed info up front about how long you had the car, etc. So when he says "there was a misunderstanding about how long you had the car" it seems to just really highlight his agenda...which seemed not to coincide with your best interests. Upselling is a fact of most business...and it's fine if one is straightforward about it vs making up the reasons...which is insulting and inexcusable.

And as far as recommending to rotate tires every 5 months?! Where in the world did that reference come from? Probably the same place he got the notion you would swallow the whole experience as acceptable in the first place. What exactly does a few months do to a car's tires if you don't look at mileage? (Yeah, weight on front, etc...but please.)

I've been in business development and sales for years. It's this kind of stuff that just leaves me insulted frankly. There's no call for anything outside of honesty and the goal of a "mutually successful" relationship that allows for someone to be manipulated.

I would have asked him to describe how you would be inclined to trust him on a major issue after this first experience...while on the way to another dealership.
Bowzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 05:27 PM   #12
Bruce_Lee
Junior Member
Bruce_Lee is on a distinguished road
 
Bruce_Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 41
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Laguna,
Yes, when they remove the oil filter, for some reason, they just let the oil drip down to the 'cross bar'. No, it doesn really 'damage' your car, BUT, when you get home, you better put something underneath it because you WILL get oil spots in your garage/driveway.

I took some paper towels and got under my car to clean up as much as I could, and I burned one my fingers on the exhaust pipe - my fault for doing it when it was still hot.


Bowzer,
That's exactly what I am trying to get accross. Initially, I did tell him that I've had the car since the new year. Again, it's sad that now I can not trust them. I really wouldn't mind paying extra, to a certain point, as long as they are honest with me and don't try to push things that I don't need.
...
2008 Saturn Outlook XR FWD
Silver exter and ebony cloth interior
Navigation (w/ rear view camera)
Trailering Pkg.

No brand loyalty; My loyalty is to my money!
Bruce_Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 07:35 PM   #13
HockeyMom
Junior Member
HockeyMom is on a distinguished road
 
HockeyMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Franklin, WI
Posts: 14

2007 Outlook XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

I had an issue with my Saturn dealer when I went in for my first service that makes me feel uneasy about returning also. My car was a demo and had about 5000 miles on it when I got it. Based on the oil life monitor, they had just changed the oil before I got it. At around 6400 miles I brought it back in for a tire rotation (24.95). I also wanted them to check one of the speakers in the back, it sounded real distorted, the kids found it real annoying. So after they're done, he brings me my paperwork and I see that they couldn't duplicate the problem with the speaker. Why didn't they tell me this before they brought it back outside. It's real easy to duplicate, just crank up the bass. So I show the guy and he's like 'Oh yeah, now I hear it'. So they order the speaker and I come back the next day. They have to remove one of the seats from the third row and a trim panel to get at the speaker. Then they realize they have the wrong speaker. So they put it all back together and tell me to come back when they get the correct one in. I look in the back and notice they haven't put the seat back in correctly, but I'm not real concerned because I know I will be back the next day. So I go back the next day and get the correct speaker installed. I get all checked out and decide to double check that they got the third row put back together correctly. That's when I notice a hole and a long crack in the trim panel they had to remove. I go back inside and bring out the service guy. He seems a bit flustered like he can't believe they didn't mention that to him. I wasn't real mad about it at first, but as I drove home I got more upset. Did the mechanic think I wouldn't notice for a few days and then I couldn't blame them for it? There's no way he didn't notice that he wrecked it. It's obviously right where he had tried to pry it off. Anyway, they fixed it for free, of course. But do I want to go back there? If I do go back, am I out of line to say I don't want Joe Knucklehead (name changed to protect the guilty) to work on my car? Sorry this is so long!
HockeyMom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 08:59 PM   #14
djhhjd
Member
djhhjd is on a distinguished road
 
djhhjd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 202
 

2009 Outlook XR
2005 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMom View Post
I had an issue with my Saturn dealer when I went in for my first service that makes me feel uneasy about returning also. My car was a demo and had about 5000 miles on it when I got it. Based on the oil life monitor, they had just changed the oil before I got it. At around 6400 miles I brought it back in for a tire rotation (24.95). I also wanted them to check one of the speakers in the back, it sounded real distorted, the kids found it real annoying. So after they're done, he brings me my paperwork and I see that they couldn't duplicate the problem with the speaker. Why didn't they tell me this before they brought it back outside. It's real easy to duplicate, just crank up the bass. So I show the guy and he's like 'Oh yeah, now I hear it'. So they order the speaker and I come back the next day. They have to remove one of the seats from the third row and a trim panel to get at the speaker. Then they realize they have the wrong speaker. So they put it all back together and tell me to come back when they get the correct one in. I look in the back and notice they haven't put the seat back in correctly, but I'm not real concerned because I know I will be back the next day. So I go back the next day and get the correct speaker installed. I get all checked out and decide to double check that they got the third row put back together correctly. That's when I notice a hole and a long crack in the trim panel they had to remove. I go back inside and bring out the service guy. He seems a bit flustered like he can't believe they didn't mention that to him. I wasn't real mad about it at first, but as I drove home I got more upset. Did the mechanic think I wouldn't notice for a few days and then I couldn't blame them for it? There's no way he didn't notice that he wrecked it. It's obviously right where he had tried to pry it off. Anyway, they fixed it for free, of course. But do I want to go back there? If I do go back, am I out of line to say I don't want Joe Knucklehead (name changed to protect the guilty) to work on my car? Sorry this is so long!
I dont know if that will work I mean having Joe Knucklehead working on your Outlook, it seems like whenever I have stuff done to mine it's always the same tech.
djhhjd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 09:06 PM   #15
Dalejr
Junior Member
Dalejr is on a distinguished road
 
Dalejr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kenner La.
Posts: 13

2007 Outlook XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

This is the service menu from the dealership I bought my Outlook from:
http://www.saturnofmetairie.com/MiscPage_4

And I had service for a leaking sunroof and when I picked up the car after the service the service adviser had me go look at the car to see if I had any complaints or was not satisfied with the way it was put back together. I found some finger prints on the headliner and told them about them and they took it back and cleaned them up in 10 min. I was very satisfied with there customer service.
...
2007 Outlook FWD XR Pearl Silver, Convnience Pkg, Touring Pkg, Premium Trim Pkg, Trailering Pkg, Dual Sunroof, Molded Mudguards
2006 Eclipse GT 6-Speed UV Blue Pearl, Premium Sport Pkg, Accessory Pkg

Last edited by Dalejr; 03-10-2008 at 09:11 PM.
Dalejr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 09:11 PM   #16
onefunkar
Master Member
onefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the roughonefunkar is a jewel in the rough
 
onefunkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,510

2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Scary....i Didnt Think Any Dealer Still Tried To 3k Oil Changes Anymore. Id Like To See Them Replace The Cabin Airfilter At 12k As Im 99 Percent Sure They Dont Have One.
onefunkar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 10:34 PM   #17
scotted73
Advanced Member
scotted73 is on a distinguished road
 
scotted73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 831
 

2007 Outlook XR
2002 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

What a maroon!
I'm guessing he was not so bright and somehow did not read the manual of common sense.
3.5 hours is way too much time to wait for anything. Have you had a chance to speak to the Service Manager or your Sales guy? I see some free dinners in the future. I do not blame you for not stepping into that dealership again.
I'm pleased that you are blaming this particular dealership and not blaming Saturn or your vehicle for your troubles.

I've used Saturn of Capitol Expressway in San Jose and have been very satisfied. I lived in Monterey for two years and bought my '03 VUE there from Ron Ryan. The service team has been more than helpful and has even dropped my family off and picked them up from the San Jose airport when we had warranty work to be done and were out of town.
...
2007 Outlook XR AWD Charcoal
Ebony Leather, Captain's Chairs and everything else from the audio/video/convenience world
scotted73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 10:39 PM   #18
scotted73
Advanced Member
scotted73 is on a distinguished road
 
scotted73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 831
 

2007 Outlook XR
2002 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefunkar View Post
Scary....i Didnt Think Any Dealer Still Tried To 3k Oil Changes Anymore. Id Like To See Them Replace The Cabin Airfilter At 12k As Im 99 Percent Sure They Dont Have One.
Indeed, there is not a cabin air filter. Just a mesh screen.
"Install Washer Solvent" --Isn't that part of topping off all fluids?
A lot of the stuff listed is vague.
...
2007 Outlook XR AWD Charcoal
Ebony Leather, Captain's Chairs and everything else from the audio/video/convenience world
scotted73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 02:12 AM   #19
Motorhead62
Member
Motorhead62 is on a distinguished road
 
Motorhead62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WF Texas
Posts: 91
 

2008 AURA XE
2001 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Wrench Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

I hate dealer service work!!! That is why I do my own!!!
...
Chris

AKA "Motorhead62"
2008 Aura XE EcoTech 2.4
2001 L200 EcoTech 2.2
1993 SL1 1.9L
1967 Chevelle "496" BBC
1967 El Camino "388" SBC
1967 C-10 "463" BBC

www.C-DPerformance.com
Motorhead62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 09:38 AM   #20
BobbyP
Master Member
BobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really nice
 
BobbyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
 

2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
Default Re: Disappointed in Local Dealer- first oil change!

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefunkar View Post
Scary....i Didnt Think Any Dealer Still Tried To 3k Oil Changes Anymore. Id Like To See Them Replace The Cabin Airfilter At 12k As Im 99 Percent Sure They Dont Have One.
My dealer pushes 3k oil changes with the little stickers on the windshield on the SKY. I don't bring in my VUE.
...
2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11
BobbyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did dealer overfill on my oil change? silversaturnvue Vue General 20 03-24-2008 11:40 AM
WHat Is Your Dealer Charging For An Oil Change? Keith (Indiana) Sky Red Line 5 10-09-2007 07:12 AM
Disappointed in dealer karinhesed86 General Saturn Discussion 1 08-12-2007 03:05 PM
Disappointed with Dealer Add-Ons on the Aura MrMarty Aura General 27 03-21-2007 11:05 AM
oil change at dealer bklyn87 L-Series General 31 09-16-2003 05:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:54 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.