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Old 04-09-2007, 09:55 PM   #1
sixsigma
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Default Questions From A Potential Buyer

We are looking real hard at the Outlook right now and I have a few questions. I hope this group can help me out.

* With all of the small quality issues, should I wait for the '08 or will these have been addressed before I pick up the vehicle (through bulletins etc)?
* I understand that this is a "no haggle" brand. However, my local dealer is also adding on "Dealer Fees" of $400. Should I really be paying retail and then more on top of that?!? At other brands those fees are always negotiated away
* My local dealer puts all kinds of "crap" on the cars to jack up the prices. Pin stripes, tinted windows, Scotch-Guard, etc. Do I have to wait 2 - 3 months to order one to avoid that stuff or do some dealers leave the car alone? This and the dealer fee thing really annoy me and could keep me from buying the car. Help here is most appreciated
* Anyone with a child seat - does the lady of the house have a hard time lifting the child in the car seat up into the seats (we will leave the base in place and move the car seat between the base and the stroller)? They seem pretty high in the second row and we will be placing it in the middle position

Thank you in advance for your assistance and thoughts.

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Old 04-09-2007, 10:42 PM   #2
gmowner
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

When we bought our Outlook I told the salsperson upfront that I do not pay for paint sealers, fabric sealers etc. At first they tried to tell me it was not an option, but in the end all we paid for was a pin stripe. I also do not recall any document fee. All in all I was quite surprised that there was no funny business when we settled up.

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Old 04-10-2007, 08:33 AM   #3
mr weather
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma View Post
We are looking real hard at the Outlook right now and I have a few questions. I hope this group can help me out.

* With all of the small quality issues, should I wait for the '08 or will these have been addressed before I pick up the vehicle (through bulletins etc)?
When we bought our VUE we waited until the 2003 model year. Whether that was a good thing or not I can't say. It still took Saturn/GM an additional couple of years before they threw in the towel on the VTi!

Quote:
* My local dealer puts all kinds of "crap" on the cars to jack up the prices. Pin stripes, tinted windows, Scotch-Guard, etc. Do I have to wait 2 - 3 months to order one to avoid that stuff or do some dealers leave the car alone? This and the dealer fee thing really annoy me and could keep me from buying the car. Help here is most appreciated
Not sure where you're located but up here the dealer I've dealt with doesn't add that extra crap. I bought my ION off the lot. Told them my requirements and they found one. When dealing the the F&I guy he did try to sell me paint protection and Scotchguard but I declined.

Quote:
* Anyone with a child seat - does the lady of the house have a hard time lifting the child in the car seat up into the seats (we will leave the base in place and move the car seat between the base and the stroller)? They seem pretty high in the second row and we will be placing it in the middle position
From my brief experience the seat isn't too high. You will have to reach in the attach the infant carrier which may or may not prove awkward depending on how strong your back is!

Also keep in mind the centre position does NOT have the lower anchors which are used for LATCH-enabled car seats. You'll have to use the seatbelt. There is a top tether anchor on the seatback.

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Old 04-10-2007, 10:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

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Also keep in mind the centre position does NOT have the lower anchors which are used for LATCH-enabled car seats. You'll have to use the seatbelt. There is a top tether anchor on the seatback.
Thank you. I was told that I can use the inboard anchors on the left and right seat for a center car seat. I assumed that this meant they are the same distance apart as the two outboard anchors. Is that not the case?

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Old 04-10-2007, 11:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

Good question.

I did some quick research and many of the safety organizations specifically DON'T recommend doing that. The LATCH standard is 11" of spacing between the lower anchors (see http://www.car-safety.org/latch.html).

While some vehicles with only outboard lower anchors may have the correct spacing to allow you to install a seat in the centre position (by using one anchor from each outboard position) most don't.

I think the minimum standard for automakers is a set of LATCH lower anchors in each of the outboard positions only.

Interestingly both my VUE and ION have the lower anchors in all three seating positions.

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Old 04-10-2007, 06:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

I also had the same experience just this week. I fell in love with this suv when I first saw the spy photo's on Edmunds a year ago. Have wanted one ever since. They located exactly what I wanted at another dealer, XR fwd, sunroof and xm, $31789 including destination chgs. The extra fee's they want to charge me have completely turned me off on this vehicle. $90 paperwork fee, $79 advertising fee, $1.25 tire tax & $149 to pickup the vehicle from another dealer, $319.25 extra and they won't budge off of the msrp. Additionally, they informed me that the mud flaps are now $199 installed, instead of the $160 origionally quoted me. I do get the supplier discount, but found it to be lower than I thought it would be, $1130.30. I figure with the markup, extra's and the dealer hold back that GM gives them, they are making over $3000 on this deal. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to high to me.

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Old 04-10-2007, 07:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

I paid no dealer fees or advertising fees or any of that funny business. No pin stripes, nothing I would not have wanted. My dealer did get my Outlook from out of state because no dealer in state had exactly the combo I was looking for. I did pay for the cost of bringing the vehicle from one state to another, and it was not an adjoining state. It was a set fee of $200 to go get the car up in New England, and that was very reasonable. Had I settled for one off the lot or ordered, I would not have paid that transportation fee.

Some of you guys are dealing with dishonorable dealers, in my opinion. Try Internet sales (even with the same dealer, but don't identify yourself as having been there in person). I once got $2,000 off a brand new car in that model's first year (just like the Outlook) by negotiating with Internet sales and then walking through the door with the printed quote in hand. The showroom salesman I'd spoken with previously who offered only $400 off got major pissed off, but I didn't care. They had not choice but to give me the quote from the Internet sales department.

When you go through the internet sales department, insist they email you a quote or tell them you know a dealer who will.

If internet sales doesn't work for you, go to another Saturn dealer. Don't think you're stuck with the one a-hole dealer who is trying to gouge you.

...
2007 Saturn Outlook XR AWD, loaded, including HIDs and heated leather
2008 Acura RDX-Tech, loaded, including HIDs and heated leather
2002 Nissan Altiima V6, loaded, including HIDs and heated leather

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Old 04-10-2007, 10:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

I can fight to get the other stuff thrown out. However, there are three Saturn dealers near me and they are owned by the same people. That means that they control the added markups unless I travel quite a distance. Has anyone else had success getting rid of the dealer fees when they first said they were "mandatory"?

Back to the car seat... I can't figure out why GM didn't put a proper latch in the center seat. This is where you are SUPPOSED to put a single car seat. Are the bean counters really so out of touch that they would take away two metal clasps at the expense of children's safety? I need to check out the CX-9 and a couple of others that were clearly my second choices to see if they will be safer for my son.

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Old 04-11-2007, 02:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

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Originally Posted by sixsigma View Post
Back to the car seat... I can't figure out why GM didn't put a proper latch in the center seat. This is where you are SUPPOSED to put a single car seat. Are the bean counters really so out of touch that they would take away two metal clasps at the expense of children's safety? I need to check out the CX-9 and a couple of others that were clearly my second choices to see if they will be safer for my son.
I know my friends Volvo XC90 has no center latch mount for th 2nd row middle seat as well. It's strange.

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Old 04-11-2007, 08:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Questions From A Potential Buyer

Strange indeed, especially for Volvo.

Like I said, both my VUE and ION have middle position lower anchors. I guess the bean counters thought that a seatbelt will work just as well and they can save 75 per vehicle by not including them.

It's win-win all around!

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