SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Sky > Sky Mods
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2006, 01:25 PM   #1
Ryan_KandN
New Member
Ryan_KandN is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3
Default K&N Engineering needs Saturns

K&N Engineering is currently searching for a 2006 Saturn Sky and 2006 Saturn Ion 2.2L for testing to design a new intake system we have in development. Anyone that lends us their car will receive a free rental car if they need one, as well as a free version of the intake system if it goes into development. We are located in Riverside, CA. I seldom check back with the forums, so if you are interested or if you have any questions please contact me directly at ryanmy@knfilters.com

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ryan_KandN's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ryan_KandN reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ryan_KandN is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 08-02-2006, 04:12 PM   #2
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_KandN
K&N Engineering is currently searching for a 2006 Saturn Sky and 2006 Saturn Ion 2.2L for testing to design a new intake system we have in development. Anyone that lends us their car will receive a free rental car if they need one, as well as a free version of the intake system if it goes into development. We are located in Riverside, CA. I seldom check back with the forums, so if you are interested or if you have any questions please contact me directly at ryanmy@knfilters.com
Why I'd never consider an oiled cotton/foam filter for my vehicle:

http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 04:16 PM   #3
Uzzy
Master Member
Uzzy has a spectacular aura aboutUzzy has a spectacular aura about
 
Uzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,326
 

2002 SC1
2005 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz
Why I'd never consider an oiled cotton/foam filter for my vehicle:

http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
That's too bad. I buy one for every one of mine, and will continue to do so.

...
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
...
If your ECTS is not brass...your ass is grass.
...
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire Uzzy.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Uzzy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Uzzy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Uzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 05:00 PM   #4
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzzy
That's too bad. I buy one for every one of mine, and will continue to do so.
It takes all kinds. There are people out there that smoke 2 packs a day when they know it causes cancer too. *shrug*

Hopefully, you don't wind up being one of the unlucky ones.

Cheers,

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 05:05 PM   #5
nscrbug
Member
nscrbug is on a distinguished road
 
nscrbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago burbs
Posts: 84
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_KandN
K&N Engineering is currently searching for a 2006 Saturn Sky and 2006 Saturn Ion 2.2L for testing to design a new intake system we have in development. Anyone that lends us their car will receive a free rental car if they need one, as well as a free version of the intake system if it goes into development. We are located in Riverside, CA. I seldom check back with the forums, so if you are interested or if you have any questions please contact me directly at ryanmy@knfilters.com

You'll have a hard time finding a 2006 Sky...as all Saturn Skys currently being built are badged as a 2007.

...
Linda

Silver Pearl/Black Leather
Painted Alloys
Automatic
Monsoon 1 disc/XM
LSD
-------------------
Imaged 3/27/06
Order # GGL235
TPW 5/22/06
VIN# 3134
3800 - 5/30/06
Delivered 7/1/06

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to nscrbug's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help nscrbug reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
nscrbug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 05:13 PM   #6
Uzzy
Master Member
Uzzy has a spectacular aura aboutUzzy has a spectacular aura about
 
Uzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,326
 

2002 SC1
2005 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz
It takes all kinds. There are people out there that smoke 2 packs a day when they know it causes cancer too. *shrug*

Hopefully, you don't wind up being one of the unlucky ones.
I quit smoking a year and a half ago. I also quit buying new air filters every other oil change. I won't quit getting better gas mileage, improved throttle response, smoother operation at higher RPMs, and and an extra few ponies. IMHO all good trade offs for a few extra microns of silica in the oil. If I had an '06 ION, or '07 SKY, and didn't live on the other end of the continent, I'd be happy to lend my car to K&N. But I've just got an '85 S-10, '87 Reliant, '95 SC1, and '02 SC1 all with K&N drop-in filters.

...
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
...
If your ECTS is not brass...your ass is grass.
...
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire Uzzy.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Uzzy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Uzzy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Uzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 05:58 PM   #7
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzzy
I quit smoking a year and a half ago. I also quit buying new air filters every other oil change. I won't quit getting better gas mileage, improved throttle response, smoother operation at higher RPMs, and and an extra few ponies. IMHO all good trade offs for a few extra microns of silica in the oil. If I had an '06 ION, or '07 SKY, and didn't live on the other end of the continent, I'd be happy to lend my car to K&N. But I've just got an '85 S-10, '87 Reliant, '95 SC1, and '02 SC1 all with K&N drop-in filters.
It's not that big a roll of the dice to risk a car that's only worth a couple of grand. Why anyone would subject an expensive new car to something that is known to allow more dirt to be ingested by the engine just leaves me scratching my head. I'd rather change my filter every 10-15k miles, not have to bother with all the cleaning, and filter out much more of the dirt.

*shrug*

Best of luck to you.

Cheers,

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 06:53 PM   #8
itsmesillybubba
Senior Member
itsmesillybubba is on a distinguished road
 
itsmesillybubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,104
 

2006 ION-3 Quad Coupe
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz
It's not that big a roll of the dice to risk a car that's only worth a couple of grand. Why anyone would subject an expensive new car to something that is known to allow more dirt to be ingested by the engine just leaves me scratching my head. I'd rather change my filter every 10-15k miles, not have to bother with all the cleaning, and filter out much more of the dirt.

*shrug*

Best of luck to you.

Cheers,
+2 on that

...
Friendship is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the true warmth.
My 95 SL1 is gone :(

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to itsmesillybubba's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help itsmesillybubba reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
itsmesillybubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2006, 07:22 PM   #9
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmesillybubba
+2 on that
My wife just came up with a good analogy.

If someone offered you a condom that "improved performance," but was shown to allow "a few" sperm to get through, would you still use it?

It's a perfect analogy. You're promised some nebulous gain that can't be measured (go to K&N's site and try to find actual data). It's sold with testimonials (classic with products of dubious utility) rather than scientifically sound testing. And the product's failure to deliver can result in catastrophic and expensive consequences.

If K&N REALLY wanted to show how great their product was, they'd have them tested along with the competition according to ISO 5011 and publish the results. Instead they just spend a lot of advertising money and sponsor racecar teams (which doesn't reflect usage on a street car at all...do you rebuild your motor after every trip to the grocery store?).

Cheers,

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 03:01 PM   #10
hugh
Senior Member
hugh will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,553
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Ritz;
Your reference to K&N filters being" known to allow more dirt to be ingested" attracted my attention. I don't know where you heard this,but it certainly has not been my experience.
I have used Mobil 1 for years and have had oil samples tested on a random basis. When I bought my first K&N drop-in filter,I had an oil analysis done at next oil change and the silicon PPM count dropped by close to 30 % from previous tests. I was surprised by this so did tests at each of next 2 oil changes and results were the same. That was with my 2000 LS2 and it has been same with my L300.3.
The problem with K&N filters is that unless the cleaning instructions are followed and the filter is allowed to completely dry after washing and before re-oiling,some areas of filter media remain damp and do not hold the oil so that dirt(silicon particles) can get through. I put the OEM filter in for a few days while cleaning the K&N to give lots of time for drying.
I have not found any noticeable increase in power or fuel economy.On the other hand,I have saved a bundle in filter replacement costs over the past 6 years in return for a very small investment in time to do a careful cleaning and re-oiling job once a year.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to hugh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help hugh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 03:26 PM   #11
Uzzy
Master Member
Uzzy has a spectacular aura aboutUzzy has a spectacular aura about
 
Uzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,326
 

2002 SC1
2005 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
The problem with K&N filters is that unless the cleaning instructions are followed and the filter is allowed to completely dry after washing and before re-oiling,some areas of filter media remain damp and do not hold the oil so that dirt(silicon particles) can get through. I put the OEM filter in for a few days while cleaning the K&N to give lots of time for drying.
I have not found any noticeable increase in power or fuel economy.On the other hand,I have saved a bundle in filter replacement costs over the past 6 years in return for a very small investment in time to do a careful cleaning and re-oiling job once a year.
Yes, cleaning the filter propely is very important. Improperly maintaining it is what causes most people trouble. There is a TSB for the MAF sensors in the VUE. If the sensor is problematic during the warranty peroiod and the vehicle has an air filter with an oiled element, warranty will not cover the sensor. This is because people are over oiling the filter. I always run the stock filter for a day or two while the K&N is drying.

...
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
...
If your ECTS is not brass...your ass is grass.
...
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire Uzzy.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Uzzy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Uzzy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Uzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 03:29 PM   #12
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
Ritz;
Your reference to K&N filters being" known to allow more dirt to be ingested" attracted my attention. I don't know where you heard this,but it certainly has not been my experience.
I have used Mobil 1 for years and have had oil samples tested on a random basis. When I bought my first K&N drop-in filter,I had an oil analysis done at next oil change and the silicon PPM count dropped by close to 30 % from previous tests. I was surprised by this so did tests at each of next 2 oil changes and results were the same. That was with my 2000 LS2 and it has been same with my L300.3.
The problem with K&N filters is that unless the cleaning instructions are followed and the filter is allowed to completely dry after washing and before re-oiling,some areas of filter media remain damp and do not hold the oil so that dirt(silicon particles) can get through. I put the OEM filter in for a few days while cleaning the K&N to give lots of time for drying.
I have not found any noticeable increase in power or fuel economy.On the other hand,I have saved a bundle in filter replacement costs over the past 6 years in return for a very small investment in time to do a careful cleaning and re-oiling job once a year.

Review the link I supplied above. The increased dirt passing through the filter is documented as the result of a standard ISO 5011 test and compared to a number of other filters, both paper and re-usable.

Cheers,

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 03:32 PM   #13
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzzy
Yes, cleaning the filter propely is very important. Improperly maintaining it is what causes most people trouble. There is a TSB for the MAF sensors in the VUE. If the sensor is problematic during the warranty peroiod and the vehicle has an air filter with an oiled element, warranty will not cover the sensor. This is because people are over oiling the filter. I always run the stock filter for a day or two while the K&N is drying.
Yup, cleaning the filter is somewhat of a hassle. You have to wash it, then allow it completely air dry, then re-oil it...being careful not to allow extra oil to remain and contaminate the MAF sensor. Why anyone would risk this or the increased dirt flow for some imperceptible benefit puzzles me. If you want to say you do it to "save money" on air filters over the life of the vehicle, consider your time to properly maintain them as well as the potential risk for damaging your MAF (with oil contamination) or your engine (with additional dirt ingestion). It just doesn't seem like a worthwhile proposition to me.

cheers,

Last edited by Ritz; 08-03-2006 at 03:40 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 08:43 PM   #14
hugh
Senior Member
hugh will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,553
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Ritz;

That's a 'gotcha' for you ! Somehow I missed that link. I've now read it and it is impressive.

I'm not sure how applicable these tests for diesel truck engine air filters are to car gas engines air filters but obviously there must be some relevence.

I'm not going to throw my K&N filter away just yet. I am more than saisfied with the fact that after installing it,the silicon PPM dropped to well below average and has stayed there in every oil analysis report since.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to hugh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help hugh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
hugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 09:33 PM   #15
Ritz
Master Member
Ritz has a spectacular aura aboutRitz has a spectacular aura about
 
Ritz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LOL
Posts: 2,927
 

2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
Ritz;

That's a 'gotcha' for you ! Somehow I missed that link. I've now read it and it is impressive.

I'm not sure how applicable these tests for diesel truck engine air filters are to car gas engines air filters but obviously there must be some relevence.

I'm not going to throw my K&N filter away just yet. I am more than saisfied with the fact that after installing it,the silicon PPM dropped to well below average and has stayed there in every oil analysis report since.
I suspect that the difference between a diesel filter and a gas engine filter is just the lettering on the box. The tests themselves were performed on a specialized ISO certified test rig, not on a real engine.

The sentence that really stands out for me is:

"The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt."

So I hope ya'll are cleaning those filters regularly. It's important to note that the re-usable filters only flowed better than the paper filters for a relatively short period of time since the paper filters had a more linear dust loading curve while the re-usable filters had more of an exponential loading curve. As the re-usable filters get dirty, the flow restriction increases *rapidly*.

Cheers,

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Ritz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Ritz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Ritz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2006, 07:12 PM   #16
1500cc
Member
1500cc is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 68
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

I agree with Ritz here. There's no way I'd run a K&N air filter on any car of mine (their oil filters are good, though). Back when I was into f-bodies many guys I knew did oil analysis and found far too much silica in their results with K&N air filters. Plus there's no documented performance gain. In fact, I recall one magazine did a test on f-bodies where they completely removed the air filter and found less than 1 hp difference from a new stock paper filter. While this may not be applicable to all cars, it does show there may not be much to gain by switching filters.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 1500cc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 1500cc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
1500cc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2006, 06:28 PM   #17
BlueVue05
Member
BlueVue05 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Delano, MN
Posts: 90
 

2005 VUE Red Line
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

Eh.....everybody has to have something to ***** about or they just wouldnt be happy.....my dad runs two of them in each of his BMW's and the cars run fine....also had one in a chevy 8.1 liter V8 for about 70K miles and never had a problem so.....every product has a risk and some people are willing to take that risk no big deal K&N makes an awesome product and if it was as harmful as this test seems to make it then it wouldnt be on the market because of lawsuits and the like oh well you're missing out.

...
05 Blue Redline w/ebony package/All Black Accents/K&N intake

91 BMW 850i Remus exhaust/K&N air filters/ 19lb injectors

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BlueVue05's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BlueVue05 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BlueVue05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2007, 10:47 PM   #18
Vertigoomg
Member
Vertigoomg is on a distinguished road
 
Vertigoomg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 217
 

1997 SC2
Default Re: K&N Engineering needs Saturns

I may be kicking a dead horse, but I am going to give this a shot:

Most people I know that modify their cars either give far more attention to their car than the average joe, or they take far less care for it than the average joe- the latter usually with people who have high performance hotrods who expect to rebuild their motor in a short way, anyways. In either case, they can afford the common cleaning cycle with the filter as well as staying strictly with the service intervals vs. having some buffer room with a paper element but lost performance. It could also be that they want to get that ideal bell-shaped inlet afforded by a velocity stack, and conical paper element filters may not be readily available.

For me, a drop-in K&N filter just wouldn't do it for me. For the little power you get, you are risking a lot. I was having a hard time figuring out how much dirt my K&N filter was getting in the Daytona for the short period it was running, so I wasn't sure if I was abusing it or just paranoid. If it's a brand new car, I'd say just don't mess with it and leave it the way it is till you figure out a lot about the car. I know I'm STILL learning about cars. The few ponies you pick up may not be worth it...

By the way, I wonder why they didn't test a Weapon-R filter.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Vertigoomg's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Vertigoomg reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Vertigoomg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K&N Engineering needs Saturns Ryan_KandN Ion General 17 10-07-2006 12:56 AM
Clapsaddle's buy Saturns (Numbers 36 & 37) ClapDaddy General Saturn Discussion 14 11-21-2005 06:50 AM
Saturns & Opels, Oh My! thatjerryguy General Saturn Discussion 13 02-15-2005 09:45 AM
Design & Engineering MtnVUEShadow Vue General 21 07-20-2004 08:09 AM
Saturns & Other GMs in the Matrix Reloaded SweetASSaturn General Saturn Discussion 13 05-19-2003 04:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:24 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.