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Old 11-26-2013, 06:41 PM   #1
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Default Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Hey guys,

I was wondering how fast exactly is an Upstream o2 sensor suppose to switch at operating temp, Im replacing the converter sensor on my 02 because of a failed heater, However on the live data for the manifold sensor the 2 cars look differently to me, The one car the sensor switches fast and the other car the sensor switches but not as fast as the other, Am I driving myself crazy or does the other car have a sensor going bad to? I dont have a SES light at all but id just like to know if thats going to be something I have to worry about in the future, Im glad I dont have kids because these Saturns are like my kids with how much they cost me lol

...
2015 Subaru Forester Limited "Prinny"
2000 SW2 Still Running Strong- 160K Traded In
2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


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Old 11-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Switching rate depends on the mixture it is seeing among other features of the physical construction. Lean to rich greater than 125 ms or rich to lean greater than 156 ms, so add .125 sec to .156 sec = .281 sec for a complete cycle. So that turns into 3.5587 cycles/second. Those are the minimums. If they are 2 different brands or part numbers of the same brand they will switch differently.

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Old 11-26-2013, 07:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

The switching speed is definitely relating to the throttle opening. I did record several waveform under varies condition
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...aveform&page=2

The fastest switching rate I saw when depressing the gas pedal is about 3 Hz. This coincides with OldNuc's number. This is a brand new Denso O2 sensor,

The sensor gets lazy over the time, I think, and the car loses power or not very responsive to the gas pedal.

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Old 11-26-2013, 07:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Well they both have OEM Denso sensors on them, I guess ill just let it go and see what happens in the future, I just dont want the fuel mixture on the car to suffer in the event the sensor is getting tired.

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Old 11-26-2013, 08:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

They really do not get tired, they get contaminated and that kills them off. The switching rate is also a function of temperature.

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Old 11-26-2013, 08:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
They really do not get tired, they get contaminated and that kills them off. The switching rate is also a function of temperature.
The only reason im concerned is when I bought the Wagon the temp only went up to 150 Degrees on the live data and 1/4 on the gauge when hot, The Thermostat was worn out, Im not sure how long it ran like that before I took ownership of it, Ive done alot of service work to bring it back to spec, and I know when they run cold theres a rich condition and I know alot of fuel can kill an O2 sensor thats the only reason im worried.

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Old 11-26-2013, 08:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

both my Saturns gained power after using a new Denso O2 sensor. I am certainly no expert in this matter. I did check the waveform and compare them, especially when the RPM is high to about 2000. The new sensor output 3 Hz but the old one did not, so I figure the sensor is getting lazy. By the way, I did the torch test of the old sensor as well, it did go to 0.9v when heated.

I just replace it since it is easy to do and also relatively cheap, just use the universal one,234-1000, 13.99 at autozone. you can either splice it to the existing connector or push the pin out of the connector and solder it.

Personally, i just replaced both O2 sensors, I figure since one is aging, so is the other.

I am also thinking that the scan tool's displaying the O2 waveform may be no good. The update rate is too slow, if i remember correctly, my scanner can display waveform of 1hz or less.

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Well, you can always replace both of them. Use the one specified for the year of the car, they may be different.

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Well, you can always replace both of them. Use the one specified for the year of the car, they may be different.
Well I just bought the Post Cat Sensor for my Sedan because of my Service Engine Soon light, This upstream sensor is for the Wagon do you think this can wait till after the holidays, I really cant afford to buy another sensor right now unless its dire that its going to cause the engine harm, the computer doesnt seem "upset" at least as of yet theres no SES light or pending codes, I figure if the sensor starts getting slower it would set a P0133 Slow Response Code?

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

They will set a code before anything serious happens. No harm in waiting.

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
They will set a code before anything serious happens. No harm in waiting.
Thanks, I usually like to get the OEM equipment for them, Ill be able to save until after the holiday, I know the upstream one is cheaper because its not heated, Also is 21022987 the correct upstream sensor for a 2000 SW2?

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2002 SL1 Still has Its Training Wheels on at 88K Traded In


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Old 11-26-2013, 10:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

Buy the Denso from RockAuto as the OEM part is considered a consumable and there is no telling what you will get.

Denso was one of the original OEM suppliers for these sensors.

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Old 11-26-2013, 10:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

2000 SW2 21022987 CA emissions 21025117 FED emissions, look on the radiator support for the emissions certification

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Old 11-26-2013, 10:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Upstream O2 Sensor Switching

I know I got the CA emissions because it has a pre-cat on the exhaust manifold if thats any indicator of it......

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