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Old 01-20-2019, 03:20 AM   #41
Packard
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1995
Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

if this is just a sensor the brake light would not be on too. The abs would be on only .Have a reader from a auto store read you the codes for free.

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Old 01-20-2019, 03:28 AM   #42
Packard
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

If u do decide to replace the module and bleed the car when remove the old abs and replace from a donor vehicle always disconnect the negative terminal from your car so this does not cycle the pump in abs and cause air to get trapped in the replacement . bleed as above . This will get all light off . Just be sure to never run your car while ur bleeding it .Car battery disconnect just to be safe and be sure the abs is off . so when u replace it that is it off . I had mine turned off when I did mine and was able to restore my abs and brake fuctions but doing the bleed procedure above.

You can reconnect battery and run car after u made sure the two screws on module are bleed and the 4 wheels have been bleed . Makre sure fluid is coming out clear use a bootle with a hose from bleeder screws into a bottle with fluid so all bubbles come out meaning air when bubbles stop air is all out of that screw can go to next bleeder .


step 1
Bleed THE TWO BLEEDER SCREWS ON THE
abs module
bleeder screw nearest the firewall and master cylinder

no close and bleed THE 2nd one. Front one facing away from master cylinder and closest to left fender.

Now u can bleed the 4 wheels

RR rIGHT REAR
FL
RL
FR

Last edited by Packard; 01-20-2019 at 03:40 AM..

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Old 01-20-2019, 03:43 AM   #43
Packard
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

i have knack for fixing abs on my car have repaired this issue several times and pass all my inspections yearly. Im in state where I need to pass to get sticker. Anyway this is now a safety car and brake light will cause a fail. So I just did this to mine in august to fix it cause I had to get mine ready for inspections . I took a 2yr course in mechanics certified mechanic.

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Old 01-20-2019, 12:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

Since this all seems to have started when the car was hosed-down to wash off salt, have you removed each wheel to inspect the ABS cables/sensors/reluctors? Yes, I know only the cable is accessible on the rears, but is the dust cap on those still in place?

Of course, if you used live-data that includes ABS, you could avoid all this guessing or even removing the wheels. Have you had it scanned speciically for ABS codes?

It is sad we wandered so far off into meters and meter-reading, and I contributed to that snipe-hunt; all "trying to help" but losing focus on the actual problem that the thread started with.

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Old 01-20-2019, 03:34 PM   #45
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

Oh no, I take responsibility for wandering off.

ABS codes/live data: I use torque which reads OBD and have an innova 3130, I don't think either does ABS info.
If the ABS is not currently illuminated, can you still read codes?
I did look at the wheels but not familiar enough with those parts to see if anything is missing. I am having the tires rotated soon, so will ask at the shop.

As far as the alternator - I do not mind this side track as I am learning valuable info.
But I am stuck again, since the new DVM is giving me even crazier numbers. Operator error, I am sure, but I did read the manual, for both meters.
Meter is auto ranging but when I connect probes to battery it cycles through 4 or 5 values (including "OL' or DL?) and never stops on a number.

However, backing up again, if I am getting DCV readings of 14ish at the battery, does that not point to good alternator output?

...
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:26 PM   #46
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

I gotta ask... have you had a battery charger connected to the battery during any of these AC tests?

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Old 01-20-2019, 05:46 PM   #47
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa_M View Post
...ABS codes/live data: I use torque which reads OBD and have an innova 3130, I don't think either does ABS info.
If the ABS is not currently illuminated, can you still read codes?
No. In general, if neither the abs nor engine light are on, error codes are not stored. This means everything is fine and if any error codes weren't erased via reader reset, ecm/pcm fuse removal/replacement or battery disconnect, vehicles pass state emissions inspection where emissions inspection are required. Readers storing pending codes means someone manually reset/erase codes but they're stored in another part of memory. Pending codes usually means emissions inspections will not pass until a vehicle is driven around 50 miles or a few days of regular driving for emissions self tests to run and learn new values for storage in memory. When this drive cycle is performed, new parameters are learned and as long as they meet programmed parameters, several monitors meet state/federal emissions regulations.

Abs has its own memory with error codes. Most generic readers cannot read abs error codes. Yours came and went and most likely occurred from electrical issues still not found. If you are familiar with the 'canary in the mine' real issue from early mining technology, the S-series inadvertently have the unique benefit of the abs/tc indicator turning on then off for no reason other than as the only indicator (nowhere in service manuals) for a main power issue (battery, drive belt/belt tensioner, battery cables, alternator). There are several threads about this scenario - abs and tc light turns on then off but inspections of abs wheel speed sensors, wiring to sensors and Autozone readers capable of reading abs error codes (only when the abs light remains ON) not displaying any abs errors eventually points to alternator problems. The abs is self contained and independent of engine, brake, and airbag systems. The only time abs and tc flash on is when abs or tc actually occurs in braking situations when brakes tend to lock up. Abs will not allow brakes to lock up, increasing braking distances in wet conditions. You can search threads of this unusual issue of the abs indicator becoming a warning about main power issues before the battery light turns on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa_M View Post
As far as the alternator - I do not mind this side track as I am learning valuable info. But I am stuck again, since the new DVM is giving me even crazier numbers.

However, backing up again, if I am getting DCV readings of 14ish at the battery, does that not point to good alternator output?
Yes and no. If you have to recharge the battery then something is wrong and using a dvm is only one way for diyers to make assessments at home. I can cite a personal experience as a perfect example of voltage readings seemingly perfect but the alternator was found faulty. My headlights, instrument panel, radio and hvac lights all flickered in sync randomly. Every voltage check always showed around 14.5 volts dc whether I was driving or idling. It's difficult to measure voltages while driving when flickering lights occur infrequently. Because this wasn't annoying and occuring on a regular basis, I let it go until deciding to replace the alternator. After replacement, no more flickering lights. My alternator sits near the bottom of the engine (rear) and probably gets wet from time to time (salted roads, driving thru puddles). The rear plastic terminal cover was cracked, possibly from overheating. I have not come across any L300 thread or any forum with this issue. A one time unusual occurrence. The random flickering of lights was my canary in the mine effect. No battery light ever turned on while driving. Canaries were used as the first gas detectors and dropped dead when oxygen levels dropped, to warn miners to get out before becoming asphyxiated from mine gases. S-series cars inadvertently have abs and tc lights cycle on and off, most likely due to alternator regulators failing to maintain voltages between 13-15 volts dc. Voltage regulators depends on a clean source of three phase ac voltage rectified to dc thru six diodes. Diodes and voltage regulators are the heart of electronically controlled voltages from alternators. Advanced equipment such as oscilloscopes can display sine waves from each of the three phases of ac voltage generated and if one of the six diodes fails. O'scopes aren't diy equipment but better repair shops have digital scopes to monitor alternator outputs whether ac or dc. Dvms may not be able to measure alternator ac voltages due to meter circuitry designed to measure rms values. Three phase ac output with a leaking/damaged diode may give unusual ac voltages. Alternators do not output ac voltages otherwise electronics get upset.

As a diyer, you must consider the overall perspective when diagnosing problems with more than casual knowledge if you expect to make your own repairs to save money. The balance is whether to pay a repair shop for this expertise in diagnosing and troubleshooting or learn to maintain vehicles personally, acquiring knowledge along the way.

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Old 02-11-2019, 04:12 PM   #48
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

I only had the brake+ABS light come on once, it has not repeated. I am bearing in mind this may indicate a failing alternator and am going to keep an eye on battery voltage since I couldn't figure out how to do the acvoltage.

Meanwhile, I did have a brake fluid replacement done (3 year).
Tech filled the res over the FULL line - it's up to the shoulder of the tank.
I already have wiped the outside of the tank a few times, I was figuring he spilled some, as he also spilled a good amount of oil on my shiny valve cover. I don't think it's all the way up to the top of the filler neck. Now I'm starting to wonder if it is leaking from being overfilled; it did not leak previously.

Anyway, is it OK to be that much overfilled on brake fluid? The shop is not close to my house, so it's a mini road trip for me to go have them fix it.

...
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

Brake fluid replacement is laborious, requiring removing all old fluid from lines and brake wheel cylinders and calipers in a prescribed sequence. This can take as little as 30 minutes to as much as an hour or more depending on the skill of the mechanic and any equipment to shorten the time. Was your brake system completely flushed and bled so new fluid reaches every brake or did the shop just top off brake fluid. Hint; brake fluid absorbs moisture in a year or so (brake master cylinders are vented thru its cap) and turns new light honey colored fluid dark brown. If your brake master cylinder shows dark brown to black fluid, it wasn't replaced. Over filling the reservoir isn't correct. As brakes heat up, especially grunt disc brakes, Brake fluid expands and backs up thru lines to the master cylinder reservoir. The air space allows for expansion and contraction of brake fluid.

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Old 02-11-2019, 08:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

It was supposed to be a flush, and the new fluid is clear.
Thanks, I hadn't considered heating effect.
How do I correct the level?

...
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:49 PM   #51
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa_M View Post
It was supposed to be a flush, and the new fluid is clear. Thanks, I hadn't considered heating effect.
Great!? At least there's no doubt between topping off and completely replacing brake fluid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa_M View Post
How do I correct the level?
The easiest way to remove excess fluid is to use a large syringe sold in auto stores for purposes like; dispensing distilled water into car batteries, measuring exact amount of fluid for mixing with other fluid, suctioning fluid, etc. The plastic syringes do not have steel needles and are very large. An alternate to plastic syringes would be an inexpensive turkey baster sold in every supermarket.

Google images of general purpose plastic syringes and where to buy them (other than pharmacy suppliers) sold in auto stores. Turkey basters are everywhere.

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Old 02-12-2019, 12:43 AM   #52
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

OK, great, was hoping it was acceptable to just pull from the reservoir/tank, I didn't know how likely it is to contaminate it that way.

I used the turkey baster to do my PS fluid but found it didn't hold the fluid well. So I do have a large syringe around somewhere, otherwise it is good to know they have them at the FLAPS. I will make sure it is clean and dry before putting in the res./tank.

Is soap/water clean up good enough for the syringe afterwards? I need to replace my PS fluid again.

...
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:27 AM   #53
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Default Re: ABS + BRAKE light

If it was me I'd just use windex and paper towels to clean the turkey baster.

...
Bryan Cotton
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018

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