Build thread LE5/LSJ + M62

[Finkle]

Hello everyone

I'm taking the plunge and starting my build for my 05 2.2 Vue. I've been researching this for almost a year, taking lots of info off the J body and Cobalt forums, with some help from the Miata and Fiero forums as well. I love the Vue for its size, its easy to work on, and good on gas. Plus its a stick! But it does not get out of its own way. I really want to keep it a stick, so I'm not going to get a 3.5 AWD. I hear they can move pretty good, but I want to keep my 3rd pedal. So I trolled around the internet for a long time and figured out a plan to boost it up in power while being able to still row my own gears

A little background: All versions of the 1st gen ecotec are externally interchangeable. Meaning you can switch any 2.0 2.2 or 2.4 engines around. The heads off any of the three will bolt on to any block. Internally there are several differences, most of which can be overcome. I was originally planning on using the LE5 2.4l block with the L61 2.2l head in my vue. I would gain around 20hp and torque, plus the bottom ends of the 06 and some 07 LE5s are forged, which is a plus. Then I found a really good deal on a M62 eaton blower and intake off a LSJ in an Ion Redline. So I decided to take the LSJ head instead of the L61.

So, everything will bolt into the Vue and the 5 spd trans will bolt onto the LE5 block, so everything will bolt right in. Not comes the hard part, wiring.
The ecotec is a popular engine for swapping into Fieros and a few Miatas. These guys spent a lot of time figuring out how to make an ecotec run basically in standalone mode without a BCM or any other modules except the ECM. I'm going to follow them instead of trying to blaze my own trail, because that's the hard way, and why do it the hard way?

I had a couple options, 1: keep the factory ECM from the L61, run a megasquirt to control the fuel and spark and convert to a throttle cable.
2: pull everything from a donor car, ECM, BCM, gauge cluster, ignition and a some other parts and mock up a cobalt inside my vue
3: Buy an external crank trigger wheel and keep the stock ECM. (would have to run a piggyback for controlling boost)
4: do a hybrid of 2 and 3 using HP Tuners to turn off VATS and some codes

I'm going to attempt to use a L67 ECM from a Ion 2.4 and use HP Tuners to turn off the anti-theft (VATS), which from the Miata forums, allow the ECU to become a standalone unit not requiring a BCM to run. Let me explain a little more. In factory form, the ignition sends a signal to the BCM when the key is turned. The BCM sends a code signal to the ECM telling it OK to start. Without the signal from the BCM, the ECM does not fire the injectors. This requires the BCM and ignition switch to come with the ECM so it gets the OK to start signal. HP Tuners is able to turn off that requirement in certain ECMs. Unfortunately they do not support pre 07 2.2 ECMs at all. They do support the 2.4 ions, cobalt's and HHRs. I chose a 2.4 Ion because there is the least amount of added crap to worry about. I will be keeping the stock 2.2l ECM around to control everything else not engine related. I want to keep the Vue gauge cluster, which is ran by the BCM, so the stock ECM will need some of the sensor data so I can use the gauges. The stock ECM also works with the BCM to run the AC, power steering, and a few other parts of the car. It seems like a lot more work to pull the Ion BCM and make it play nice with the HVAC controls in the vue.
This is my plan in a nutshell: Have the 2.4 ECM control the engine, use the factory ECM and BCM in for body and HVAC functions. I'm just in the beginning phase. I have the ECM and complete wiring harness from an Ion. I will post up pics along with wiring diagrams as I go. More to come!

[Finkle]

Small update, I got the LSJ head, valve cover and coil packs today. I'll get it cleaned up In the next couple weeks. Now I'm on the hunt for the LE5 bottom end.

[fdryer]

Does this help? (http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...otec-bolt-ons/) Would dropping in a stock 2.0L supercharged ecotec engine (and electronics) from an Ion suffice without the headaches? You'd be going from around 145hp (2.2L) to 205hp (supercharged 2.0L). This might be the simpler engine transplant.

If you aren't fully familiar with Saturn EFI systems, Passlock and what each electronic module does;

ECMs run the EFI system. BCMs runs everything else except airbags and abs/tc (each have their own electronics). All modules send diagnostic data and error codes to the bcm for output to the OBD II port. The bcm has the theft deterrent program, Passlock, and uses discrete signals from the ignition switch as part of Passlock security (go/no go/. Ions disable the starting circuit when a theft attempt occurs (turning ignition to start with zero starter operation). Ion/Passlock security disables starting in theft mode. All other Saturns with Passlock disable injector operation in theft mode (starter can turn over the engine but the engine cannot run if injectors are disabled).

[Finkle]

Thanks fdryer for the input. Im doing the 2.4 from a cost effective stand point. They are cheaper and easier to find than the lsj. Plus the 06 2.4s have some forged internals so i dont have to upgrade the lower half to handle the blower. Add the extra .4 displacement and i should be able to make the same amout of power as the lsj using less boost.

The other wrinkle is the clutch, lsj uses an 8 bolt instead of the standard 6 bolt. An lsj clutch an spacer is needed to work with the f23 trans. All things i could get, but i already have a new clutch i bought when i got the car.

Hp tuners should take out passkey. The bcm and other modules will still answer to the factory ecm

[1badnotch]

I have thought about doing a similar swap on my '06 Vue. I would love to swap a LNF into it. Computer/wiring seems to be the biggest hurdle. Keep us posted on your progress.

[Finkle]

Thanks fdryer for the input. Im doing the 2.4 from a cost effective stand point. They are cheaper and easier to find than the lsj. Plus the 06 2.4s have some forged internals so i dont have to upgrade the lower half to handle the blower. Add the extra .4 displacement and i should be able to make the same amout of power as the lsj using less boost.

The other wrinkle is the clutch, lsj uses an 8 bolt instead of the standard 6 bolt. An lsj clutch an spacer is needed to work with the f23 trans. All things i could get, but i already have a new clutch i bought when i got the car.

Hp tuners should take out passkey. The bcm and other modules will still answer to the factory ecm

[fdryer]

The only reasons I suggested the easiest transplant with the 2.0L w/supercharger - all the tuning was done along with the upgrades like map sensor for positive boost as opposed to the stock (non turbo) map sensor. I don't know if the lower end is already beefed up if engineering is done correctly then all mechanical parts may be of higher strength to accommodate the higher output expected. The ecm is already programmed for boost since its a factory tune to accommodate normal new car warranty. Without this setup, taking on a challenge to convert any non turbo'd engine would require megasquirt or other setup, map sensor (2-3 bar?) and tuning. A drop in setup seems to me the easier choice than starting from scratch but that's just my two cents.

[Finkle]

It was a hard choice for me too. I was able to get some of the parts at the junkyard. I found an 04 redline with a decent engine. I grabbed the head, intake manifold with sensors, tb, blower, pulleys and almost everything else I needed. The 04 ECM is not compatible with HP Tuners so I've read, so it will work with the stock boost, but I can't turn off VATS. I could buy a different ECU (kicking myself for selling the one off my wrecked 05 redline).

I also am trying to get this to work with the lease amount of downtime. I have a 6+1 trigger wheel I was going to mount on to the crank pulley. This was I can drop in the engine minus the blower and run on the stock Vue ecm until I get the other one figured out. Then if I run into problems tuning, I can take off or disable the blower, and run it NA.

I am going to be picking up a block in the next couple weeks. Waiting on taxes.

[Finkle]

I've got some diagrams for everyone. These are for an 06 Ion 5spd wit the 2.4l the ECU that I'm using.

[Finkle]

Update for anyone following along. I haven't gotten as much done as I had hoped. I did get most of the parts I need to make this work. I'll be using a LE5 block from a 09 Malibu, LSJ head from an 04 Ion redline, and trans from a 07 HHR. I already had the M62, intake, pump and everything to go along with it. I have all those parts plus most of the gaskets and timing chain components. I also have a 7 tooth trigger wheel to bolt in place of the 60-2 tooth one. That was hard to find, but I think well worth it. The only part I need now is forged pistons and rods from an 06 LE5. I will get those from the junkyard once I have a free day to go up there and tear into one.

I changed my plans on which PCM to run. My end goal is to run a pcm off a 2.4l, (called E67 or something like that). I won't have the $$ to get the blower in and running yet, but I would like to at least get the engine and trans in and running, even if it is just NA. With the trigger wheel, I should be able to drop it in and run off the stock computer. I'll figure out some way to get a external 60-2 trigger wheel.

This is where I am at. I hope to have more done coming up soon. Just wanted to let everyone know I haven't forgotten about it.

[1badnotch]

Where did you buy the 7 tooth trigger wheel from? I was looking for one a while back and could not find one anywhere.

[Nwitte]

Originally Posted by Finkle

Update for anyone following along. I haven't gotten as much done as I had hoped. I did get most of the parts I need to make this work. I'll be using a LE5 block from a 09 Malibu, LSJ head from an 04 Ion redline, and trans from a 07 HHR. I already had the M62, intake, pump and everything to go along with it. I have all those parts plus most of the gaskets and timing chain components. I also have a 7 tooth trigger wheel to bolt in place of the 60-2 tooth one. That was hard to find, but I think well worth it. The only part I need now is forged pistons and rods from an 06 LE5. I will get those from the junkyard once I have a free day to go up there and tear into one.

I changed my plans on which PCM to run. My end goal is to run a pcm off a 2.4l, (called E67 or something like that). I won't have the $$ to get the blower in and running yet, but I would like to at least get the engine and trans in and running, even if it is just NA. With the trigger wheel, I should be able to drop it in and run off the stock computer. I'll figure out some way to get a external 60-2 trigger wheel.

This is where I am at. I hope to have more done coming up soon. Just wanted to let everyone know I haven't forgotten about it.

I wouldn't bother with swapping ECMs with what you're trying to accomplish. Pick up a standalone computer and leave all your current electronics in place. HP tuners is great if what you're doing is already supported. I wouldn't go that route unless everything is in place and supported. You'll wind up making yourself a worse headache swapping and rewiring the ECM and BCM just to use HP tuners. Not to mention you'll need to take your vehicle to the dealership to have them reset everything to the vin, then they're going to ask you the original vin the equipment came from... .and headache! lol. I would just leave all the current electronics in place and use a standalone to run the frankenstein under the hood. It will be a lot easier and you'll have a lot more customization. I wouldn't worry about check engine lights with doing this either... Consider registering this vehicle where you don't need emissions.