SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2020, 10:12 PM   #21
SRGW
Advanced Member
SRGW is a name known to allSRGW is a name known to allSRGW is a name known to allSRGW is a name known to allSRGW is a name known to allSRGW is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 659

1997 SL1
Post Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

4 things to try. 1 remove relay and spray starting fluid into throttle body and see if it will start and run a little. 2 Sounds like the fuel filter/regulator may be bad. Location left rear tire area. Must replace with the correct part number or will not run. 3. It could be bad fuel. 4. Key on engine off check fuel at schrader should be under pressure 45psi.

1995 SL1 236,300 2005>2018
1997 SL1 84,300 2014>????
CHECK YOUR OIL!!
SRGW is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 08-16-2020, 11:36 PM   #22
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,331
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyalineAbsol View Post
I understand. I Appreciate your help, even without knowing what the damn thing is doing. I have no history of this car other than it’s previous owner said it “died”. I have been testing for spark and fuel, and have both. But, I think I may have stumbled on another possible things to change: the fuel pressure. When the Schrader valve is depressed, it just dribbles. Fuel gets in the rails, but that can’t be the proper pressure. No atomization of fuel, just a dump.

It’s drooling gas into the oil pan. I am also going to assume the gas is bad. What came out at the schrader valve doesn’t even smell like gas. So I have a few more things to attempt.
Ok, spark is verified. Presuming fuel is iffy (not soaking plugs when examined) would go along with dribbling fuel from the fuel test valve at ignition on time. While the pressure regulator maintains pressure, it does not stop fuel pressure from bleeding off. A fuel pump check valve prevents fuel from flowing backwards to the tank. The combination fue; pressure regulator and pump check valve allows pressure to remain high for several minutes or more for easier restarting. The fuel pump also runs for 2-3 seconds at ignition on time if the engine isn't started to prime the injector rail for pressure when startup occurs. A fuel pressure gauge might be useful at this time. Free loaners from Autozone or Advance Auto (call ahead to be sure they have loaners). Once the fuel pressure regulator is connected, turn on ignition without starting to see if pressure comes up immediately. Have someone turn on ignition if you like so you can see when ign is turned on when pressure should come up immediately and remain high for several minutes. Whether pressure comes up or not, next step is starting to see if pressure comes up. Pressure must be high for the EFI system to operate correctly. Air, fuel and spark are needed to make engines run. Low pressure or zero pressure may be the problem, a fuel issue.

Mileage?
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 08:43 PM   #23
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Mileage is 183336, regulator change did nothing. It tried to start with starter fluid, but the cranking doesnít sound right. I may be beating a dead horse with this little car. Iíll attempt compression tests when I can get the proper tools. Fuel pressure is still squat. Pump failure, possibly?
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2020, 12:02 PM   #24
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,331
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Well, you've come this far with a few dollars spent. You have nothing to lose with more troubleshooting. Just time and a few scraped knuckles.

Testing for fuel pressure and pump operation; locate the fuel pump fuse and relay. Borrow a fuel pressure gauge from AutoZone or Advance Auto. Be sure the fuse is good or measure each pin for 12v. One side should be hot all the time. When you pull the pump relay, examine it for pinout info. Insert a paper clip into relay socket terminals 30 and 87 - this sends 12v to power the pump immediately. You may hear a low hum/hiss on the fuel line or hear the pump when pressing one ear to the right rear quarter panel.
Loosely cover the fuel test valve while depressing the valve stem - if the pump runs, fuel should spray out under pump pressure or show pressure with a gauge connected. If not, there are several places to check for power and ground before presuming a faulty pump.

Either pin 30 or 87 should have 12v. Measure each socket terminal to ground. If 12v is on one of the terminals, the other pin goes to the pump. Pump ground is somewhere in the rear, bundled with other ground wires into a splice pack. Rear brake wiring needs grounds so check the trunk area and strut covers for ground splice packs. Splice packs have several black wires plugged into a terminal strip with one large ring terminal to attach to a chassis stud for grounding circuits. Some members discovered one ground terminal corroded, pump ground, preventing the pump from running. If you find one or two of these ground splice packs with all grounds connected and free of corrosion, the pump may be faulty.

Dropping the fuel tank exposes more wiring before the pump is removed for replacement.

A compression gauge borrowed along with fuel pressure gauge can help. A dry compression test followed with a tablespoon of motor oil into each cylinder for a wet test should raise compression.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2020, 10:17 PM   #25
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

You mentioned a check valve that keeps the pressure from backflowing.... would that be in the pump, or the sending unit? The pump still operates.
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2020, 01:07 AM   #26
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,619
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Ignore that check valve for the fuel pump. Its only effect is to provide the "instant starting" that so many people adore. That check valve can be totally non-functional and the engine can still start and then run normally.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2020, 01:08 AM   #27
Greg1
Senior Member
Greg1 will become famous soon enough
 
Greg1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,336
 

1997 SW2
1998 SL2
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

It's on the pump.
...
97 SW2 5-Sp 273k -mine
02 SC2 5-Sp 67k - best friend's
Greg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 09:14 AM   #28
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

So the misadventures continue. Fuel pump and pressure regulator has been replaced, tank is clean, dried, and put back up, and still no start. And another starter cooked. Muffler is puking a mixture of fuel and carbon. It tried to run, with the relay in. At leas thatís something. Couldnít start. Is there a tried and true methods of cleaning bore wash? Are there methods of flushing the fuel lines in case of blockage? Iím reaching the end of my rope, and not even sure a motor swap will fix this one, if thereís something blocking the fuel system
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 11:10 AM   #29
billr
Master Member
billr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to beholdbillr is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,619
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Did you ever take compression readings?

Disable fueling completely, pull the injector fuse and fuel pump relay. Remove the spark plugs and crank it a few turns to "air out" the cylinders, then re-install the plugs and try firing it with only starting-fluid. It should run several seconds on just starting-fluid.
billr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 02:51 PM   #30
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

No, I didnít take compression readings, despite many times of being told. However, I was doing other maintenance in trying to chill out, and found evidence that the previous owner -may- have cooked the head gasket. So Iíve been taking it apart. So Iím just doing it. It cost me nothing for the car, so i have no qualms in tear down. However, the original problem for this post is solved, so I will no longer to continue reviving it.

Thank you for your tips and assistance! Iím sure youíll see another post or two from me in the future
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 02:55 PM   #31
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,331
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

1- after turning on ignition, the fuel pump may be heard as a quiet him/hiss sound in the car. Did you depress the fuel test valve again? Does fuel spray out or not?

2- if fuel and pressure are sitting on the fuel rail and injectors, several starting attempts may flood the engine, drowning spark. In freezing weather, flooding is easier and a simple cure of flooding is to hold throttle wide open during the next start or two. This tells the pcm from the throttle position sensor to shut off objectors during starting, described as clear flood mode in owner's manuals. The engine should sputter to life as more air dilutes and dries out soaked plugs to allow spark.

Removing plugs should reveal wet smelling plugs if the engine flooded. This also allows cranking the engine to blow out excess fuel, if fuel is injected. Then put plugs back in for another start.

3- don't abuse the battery and starter for more than 5-8 seconds of starting. A lot of amperage is drawn from starter use (50-150+ amps). Repeated starting beyond 10 seconds at a time will quickly heat up a starter and drain the battery. If several starting attempts can't get the engine running, let the starter cool off for a minute or more to prevent cooking it. If you can place your hand on the starter case, you may feel a hot starter. The internal windings may be cooking from repeated attempts.

4- flushing fuel lines can be done in two places; at the fuel rail test valve or by the fuel filter. At the test valve, a safe way would be connecting a fuel pressure gauge with a T fitting and manual shut off valve. Connecting a length of hose to the shut off valve with the free end inserted into a container, shut off valve opened, someone cranking the engine should result in the fuel pump pumping fuel into the container. Thks is the safe way to handle raw fuel and explosive fumes. An alternate method without using the starter isn't as safe but uses less power.

Remove the valve core from the fuel test valve, connect a long length of hose to the test valve with the free end inserted well into a fuel container. Be aware of explosive fumes when pumping fuel, preferably outdoors with a breeze. Remove the fuel pump relay and insert a paper clip into the relay socket terminals 30 and 87. This sends 12v power to the pump immediately to run the pump. Beware of sparks when inserting and removing this paper clip jumper and explosive fumes. These two can ignite fumes with a bad outcome. If you're safe and aware of this procedure, fuel should pump into the container and flush the system in less than a quart of pumped fuel. Disconnect the jumper clip, disconnect the test valve hose carefully and let fuel drain from hose to container, replace the valve core. To ensure the valve core wasn't damaged, cycle ignition on and check the test valve for fuel leaks. Pressure builds up immediately and if the valve leaks, replace the valve core with a fuel rated one.

If the fuel lines are blocked anywhere, fuel won't come out under pressure. At least 35 psi is developed when the pump runs. System pressure is higher.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 11:21 AM   #32
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Update: head gasket was cooked. Blown out between cylinders 1, 2, and 3. I have my suspicions that I have a lot more work ahead of me than I intended.
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 07:53 PM   #33
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,331
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 08:53 AM   #34
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Itís an adventure in any case, and now that itís waiting for reassembly, Iím confident I could do the whole thing in a day or less now, if I had to do it again.
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2020, 02:46 PM   #35
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 44,331
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyalineAbsol View Post
Itís an adventure in any case, and now that itís waiting for reassembly, Iím confident I could do the whole thing in a day or less now, if I had to do it again.
I replaced a muffler some years ago, sawzalling it off to put it a direct replacement. Same hangars but the pipe into pipe wasn't quite right. In the end it fit but other work on the exhaust system had the shop weld it in place. They claimed it loosened up. Fast forward and it rotted out. New replacement went in better this time with minimal fitting of pipe over pipe and a clamp. Trimmed back the original exhaust pipe where it was welded to fit the muffler. A few weeks later rechecked clamp to make sure it didn't loosen. It should be good for another few years. I thought it was going to take several hours to fit but surprised the second time around was easier. Even my sawzall technique is improving. Practice?
...
VCX NANO
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2020, 01:29 AM   #36
RyalineAbsol
Junior Member
RyalineAbsol is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2001 SC1 CKS Trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I replaced a muffler some years ago, sawzalling it off to put it a direct replacement. Same hangars but the pipe into pipe wasn't quite right. In the end it fit but other work on the exhaust system had the shop weld it in place. They claimed it loosened up. Fast forward and it rotted out. New replacement went in better this time with minimal fitting of pipe over pipe and a clamp. Trimmed back the original exhaust pipe where it was welded to fit the muffler. A few weeks later rechecked clamp to make sure it didn't loosen. It should be good for another few years. I thought it was going to take several hours to fit but surprised the second time around was easier. Even my sawzall technique is improving. Practice?
Practice indeed! I have been graced with a second SC1 that runs, and after reassembly, the first SC has roared to life. It runs a bit rough, and has a trouble code, but by god it runs on the first pull.
RyalineAbsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2001 Satrun SC2 radio trouble mcgradyfan20098 S-Series Tech 3 01-05-2006 11:03 PM
2001 SL2 Transmission Trouble hufhouse S-Series General 7 11-01-2005 03:01 PM
trouble braking in 2001 sc2 w/40k mileage mazik S-Series General 5 10-09-2005 05:27 PM
2001 SC1 - trouble pointers? ---BCB:) S-Series General 4 05-08-2005 02:21 PM
2001 trouble codes w/o 2001SC1 Miscellaneous Tech 3 01-09-2001 10:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.