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Old 02-06-2018, 08:31 PM   #1
oldmanina2005vu
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Transmission Swap No Start

I just completed my latest VTI to AF23 transmission swap in a 2003 2.2L Vue yesterday. I followed Jimmy Ford's manual as I have in the past. After hooking up all the electrical connections and topping of the fluids I tried to start the car. The first thing I noticed was that the Service/wrench and Service Engine Soon Light was illuminated, the low fuel light was also illuminated even though I know there is at least 1/4 tank. I could not hear the fuel pump running and there is no pressure in the fuel rail. There is no security light on so I don't think the passlock is a problem. When I turn the key on the security light comes on for a few seconds and then goes out.

The engine ran before I started the swap. Any ideas what direction to start looking? There are no blown fuses and I tried swapping out the relays but no luck there. Oh no codes on my scanner.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:20 PM   #2
Bruce in Montan
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2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

While I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about....if you don't hear the fuel pump and you don't have any pressure at the rail...maybe check the wiring close to the tank for voltage. While it would be odd for the pump to go south at the same time that you're changing transmissions, a wire could have been pinched.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:17 AM   #3
Judogi
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2001 SC1
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

Where's this manual you speak of? I found several threads on different swaps, but no PDFs or anything. Thanks!
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:43 PM   #4
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

My experience is with a VTI to manual swap..

Any codes set on the ECM??

Did you swap ECMs? On my VTI to Manual swap, the ECM had to be swapped to support the manual tranny. (different ECM program for a automatic vs a manual tranny)

There is a ground wire on the ECM, is it installed?

Not sure about fuse box.... did you use the original wire harness or the harness from the new tranny? (there is a difference in the harnesses between the VTI and the manual. also difference on the fuse box, I seem to remember there was something about fuel pump relay. (I NEED TO CHECK THIS)

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=215544


The electrical plugs for the throttle body and the fuel injection can be accidentally swapped. Scroll down to post #16

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=215542

..
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:44 PM   #5
oldmanina2005vu
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start Problem Solved

Not sure exactly what happened but here is what I did to get it running today.

1. I discovered the ECM/TCM fuse was in fact blown. It must have happened after I checked them and was playing around trying to get it running. There appeared to be a direct ground on the output side of the fuse. I chased the two wires that are on that fuse and discovered that the one going to the ECM was the culprit. It seemed as though there was a short in the ECM itself. It worked fine before I started the swap. I disconnected the battery before I took the connectors off.
2. I just happened to have a spare ECM laying around from a previous 2003 VUE and I swapped it out for the one in the Vue. After I reconnected everything there was no short and the fuse was good.
3. I rechecked all my wiring which was a PIA since I had already put it in the looms. Everything was wired properly.
4. I turned the key on and up came the security light, Service/Wrench light, and the service engine soon light. This time the gauges were working however.
5. I did the 30 min. Passlock reset and she fired right up.

It must have been the ECM all along. I am not sure how this replacement will work since it is not the one that came in the car.

TO JODOGI, if you PM me an email address I will send you the manual. It is a quite large PDF. Also if you have any questions don't hesitate to message me.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:47 PM   #6
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

Glad to see you got it running...

I bypassed my passlock with a resistor. Works great when I use a remote starter.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=215634

NOTE - If you connect the throttle body and the fuel injector plugs worg, it will toast the ECM.. This normally isn't a problem from the factory as the wire looms are tied up so it almost imposible to do this. but on a engine swap, its easy to do.

Thats what was wrong with my Vue. We call it a "Rescue Vue". The PO did a good job of doing the sswap abut could never get it running so it sat in their drive for 6 years. I offered then a couple hundred dollars for it and had it running in a few days with a used ECM I bought from ebay...
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:48 PM   #7
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Thanks for your help!!

waiter21, Thanks for your suggestions but as stated in the previous post I found the problem. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I value your input and read any posts that I see with your name. I always learn something.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:51 PM   #8
oldmanina2005vu
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2008 SKY Red Line
Default Passlock Bypass

My next chore is to install a remote start and keyless entry system. I used your advice from another post on how to install the resistor. I have one out in the garage with the remote start system. The car did not come with any key fobs so I guess if anyone is stupid enough to steal it they can have it.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:55 PM   #9
waiter21
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

There are a lot of Vues with trashed VTIs.. It sounds like an Af23 swap might be an interesting winter project..

I'll send you a PM if you'll send me the manual also. I'm interested to see what all needs to be done..

Again, glad to hear you got it running... We really like ours and tow it behind the motorhome.
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:12 PM   #10
Judogi
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2001 SC1
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start Problem Solved

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanina2005vu View Post
TO JODOGI, if you PM me an email address I will send you the manual. It is a quite large PDF. Also if you have any questions don't hesitate to message me.
PM Sent! Thank you!
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:21 PM   #11
oldmanina2005vu
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2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

I've saved four great little SUV's from the junk yard with this manual. I don't know who Jimmie Ford was but he sure did a bang-up job on that manual.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:04 PM   #12
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2008 SKY Red Line
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

Ok I got it running but not so good. After clearing codes I ran the car for several minutes and got it up to 3000 RPM a couple of times while sitting. Didn't seem to be any misfiring or sputtering. After the car reached operating temperature of approximately 185 F. the car started sputtering and after checking codes I found three pending codes.

P0171 Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 1
C206F no description but chassis related
P0101 Mass airflow sensor performance

If I clear the codes and let the car sit until it cools down it will again run fine until it reaches temperature.

Any idea where to begin looking? Could it be a vacuum leak somewhere? I put in all new intake manifold seals, cleaned injectors new spark plugs, and air filter. Is it possible the Mass airflow sensor is bad? Maybe a ground problem? I'm stumped at this time. I put in a new fuel filter too.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:23 PM   #13
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

P0171 - Did you install new o-rings on the intake manifold... (I think you said you did) Mine were crushed flat and had vacuum leaks that were causing the 171 trim.. Look at post #7.. Don't forget to clean the PVC orifice while you have the manifold off.. A cracked or damaged manifold will also cause this..

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=217319


P0101 - You don't have a MAF sensor, you have a MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure). Not sure how the 101 is getting set????

Anyway, if you are able to read the raw data, your MAP sensor should read atmospheric pressure when the engine is OFF.. Mine was reading 15.1psi when it should have been 14.7 psi. This will screw up the fuel air mixture. I replaced the MAP sensor and this solved my P-106 problem..

Scroll down to post #46

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=215542&page=3

Rough running could also be grounding problems. I added several ground straps and this solved some problems I was having with speedometer (speed sensor) and hesitation.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=216101

..
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

I didn't get the manual. Can you send it to me at

waiter@iflyez.com

Tnks
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

Waiter21, check your spam mail. I sent it again. Thanks
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

Got it. Tnks
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:19 PM   #17
oldmanina2005vu
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Default Still fighting P0171 code and rough engine

I took all the components off for the intake system and reassembled them carefully to make sure everything was seated properly and all O-rings were in good shape even though they are new. I verified that the brake booster hose and all other connections were secured. I put a wrench on the ground bolt at the back of the engine where the ground cable and the ground wires for the engine attach. It was snug but torqued it down just a hair. After reconnecting the battery and turning the key to the ON position but not starting I cleared all existing codes. When I turned the key to the OFF position and then turned it back to ON. The REDUCED POWER and Service/wrench light came on. WHAT!!
I immediately went back under the hood and removed and cleaned the dickens out of the ground cables and reinstalled. I cleared codes again and she fired right up. I thought I had found the problem until after about 10 min. of running the engine it began to sputter when i gave it gas. I checked for codes and found the P0171 code had come up. I also noticed the high speed fan comes on immediately with the code. I cleared the code again and started the car. It runs fine until the code pops and the fan comes on high.
Can this be a O2 sensor problem? Will a fault O2 sensor or a clogged converter cause this code? I know what a badly clogged converter sounds like and do not hear anything out of the ordinary there also is a fair amount of condensation coming out the tail pipe. Any help would be appreciated. Oh so far the only code I have is the P0171 but it runs so terrible I haven't run it much.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: Still fighting P0171 code and rough engine

oldmanina2005vu, you've been doing yeoman's work to try and correct this problem and you have my admiration! According to my FSM, P0171 is defined as "Fuel Trim System Lean" just as you've noted previously. It sets after two cycles where the PCM discovers this error and cannot make its adjustments to bring the fuel trim back into the normal parameters.

Possible causes: vacuum leak; low fuel pressure; poor fuel quality or water in the fuel; exhaust manifold gasket leak or leak arouind O2S-1 (in ex. manifold); fuel injectors clogged; O2S-1 weak.

Considering a comment made in post #1, the fuel pump's condition (if sub-normal) may be contributing to this lean fuel trim problem. A weakened fuel pump can result in reduced fuel pressure.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

MAP sensor... If I remember right, its tucked uo under/beside the throttle body..

Can you look at sensor sats with your scanner??
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
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Old 02-11-2018, 11:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: Transmission Swap No Start

This morning I hooked up my scanner and TorquePro for Android. I took a reading of the static Manifold Air Pressure which was 14.35 PSI. I figured this was a good reading. I then cleared the P0171 pending code and set a graph for the two O2 sensors and started the graph. The Bank 1 upstream sensor was swinging between .2 and .8 volts and the Bank 2 downstream was holding up near the .8 volt line and fluctuating somewhat. I let the car heat up and when it got to the 195 F temp the Bank 1 sensor had a low spike of .0 and soon after that the P0171 code set and the cooling fan came on. The readings for Bank 1 then were in the .4 to .2 range with no spikes above .4 and the Bank 2 readings jumped up above the .8 line and creeping up to .9 volts.

I believe it is either a bad O2 sensor or something that triggers when the car gets to the 195 F. point. When does the off line cycle to on line fuel trim control begin? What triggers it? Is it time related or temp related?
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