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Old 12-13-2019, 01:52 AM   #1
JF01saturn
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2001 SW2
Default 2001 SW2 hesitation

My Saturn is suffering from a hesitation when I stab the gas then it usually powers through it at higher RPMs. Is is a DOHC 5-Speed. 97k miles

What I have done.
New plugs and wires
New IAC and TPS birth went bad months ago before this problem
New ECTS
New thermostat.
No exhaust leaks

Made myself a beer can EGR block plate and the car has never ran better. Felt like it picked up 25HP. I tried cleaning the EGR but it did not fix the problem.

Am I looking at replacing the EGR?
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Does the EGR pintle move freely?

Have you cleaned out the EGR passage? Blockage can occur anywhere from the exhaust manifold ports up to the EGR. Look up "old odometer cable trick" here. Some folks also have luck with, on a warmed up engine, removing the EGR then starting the car. The RPMS will immediately shoot to 4,000 and might blow out any blockage (which is why you do this with a warmed engine)

Check out the Dorman Help! parts rack at your local auto store. They might have a screened EGR gasket which will help keep the EGR clean. The one I got came with both Ford and GM gaskets for about $5
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:07 PM   #3
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2001 SW2
Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Does the EGR pintle move freely?

Have you cleaned out the EGR passage? Blockage can occur anywhere from the exhaust manifold ports up to the EGR. Look up "old odometer cable trick" here. Some folks also have luck with, on a warmed up engine, removing the EGR then starting the car. The RPMS will immediately shoot to 4,000 and might blow out any blockage (which is why you do this with a warmed engine)

Check out the Dorman Help! parts rack at your local auto store. They might have a screened EGR gasket which will help keep the EGR clean. The one I got came with both Ford and GM gaskets for about $5
I already cleaned the EGR and started the car when warm without the EGR to blow out any carbon, just like the richpin video.
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF01saturn View Post
I already cleaned the EGR and started the car when warm without the EGR to blow out any carbon, just like the richpin video.
Did you notice a good puff of black soot when you did that? If not, it might be blocked enough that you need to run something like the old odometer cable to break up the blockage. The "start with EGR" trick only works on loose stuff, but not on solid chunks stuck to the side walls of the passage

The blockage could also be at the exhaust manifold or head.

I know you said you cleaned the EGR, but wanted to confirm that after cleaning, you manually moved the EGR pintle around to check for sticking. Just want to be sure before recommending $60~$80 in a new EGR
My cheapness extends to other people's money

edit: D'oh! forgot to ask yesterday if you are seeing any codes

And do a leak check on the EGR
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=228643
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Last edited by alordofchaos; 12-13-2019 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:05 PM   #5
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2001 SW2
Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Did you notice a good puff of black soot when you did that? If not, it might be blocked enough that you need to run something like the old odometer cable to break up the blockage. The "start with EGR" trick only works on loose stuff, but not on solid chunks stuck to the side walls of the passage

The blockage could also be at the exhaust manifold or head.

I know you said you cleaned the EGR, but wanted to confirm that after cleaning, you manually moved the EGR pintle around to check for sticking. Just want to be sure before recommending $60~$80 in a new EGR
My cheapness extends to other people's money

edit: D'oh! forgot to ask yesterday if you are seeing any codes

And do a leak check on the EGR
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=228643
Iíll check and see if anything is blocking the passages to make sure. Iíll also give the EGR another thorough cleaning. If this does not solve any issues, does it point to the EGR needing to be replaced?
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Did blocking the EGR ports eliminate the hesitation, along with making it seem to have more power?

If all is better with the EGR flow completely blocked, then any cleaning/reaming/blowing of the passages external to the EGR valve is useless.

Eliminating the hesitation by blocking the flow means the problem is all in the EGR valve [I]or its control circuitry[I]. Use an ohmmeter to check the drive coil and potentiometer (pot) in the valve. If that doesn't show an obvious problem, then it is time to use live-data to get some clues about the control circuitry and other engine sensors.

Yes, clean the valve pintle if it looks cruddy, but testing the pot is done by "stroking" the pintle so you will soon find out it the pintle is sticking when you check the pot resistance.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Did blocking the EGR ports eliminate the hesitation, along with making it seem to have more power?

If all is better with the EGR flow completely blocked, then any cleaning/reaming/blowing of the passages external to the EGR valve is useless.

Eliminating the hesitation by blocking the flow means the problem is all in the EGR valve [I]or its control circuitry[I]. Use an ohmmeter to check the drive coil and potentiometer (pot) in the valve. If that doesn't show an obvious problem, then it is time to use live-data to get some clues about the control circuitry and other engine sensors.

Yes, clean the valve pintle if it looks cruddy, but testing the pot is done by "stroking" the pintle so you will soon find out it the pintle is sticking when you check the pot resistance.

Yes blocking the EGR ports completely got rid of the hesitation and made it feel like it had more power. The pintle does not stick at all, I did the compressed air test with the oil and the oil bubbles with little air pressure.

Last edited by JF01saturn; 12-13-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Check the coil and pot resistance with an ohmmeter. It is easy to do, you don't have to remove the EGR valve to see if the pot is open-circuit. If you find an obvious fault with the coil or pot that way, then you know it is time to get another EGR valve. Do you need specs on the resistances to look for, and pin-out of the EGR valve connector? I don't have those quickly handy, but somebody else probably does; or I will do a search for it.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:55 PM   #9
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2001 SW2
Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Check the coil and pot resistance with an ohmmeter. It is easy to do, you don't have to remove the EGR valve to see if the pot is open-circuit. If you find an obvious fault with the coil or pot that way, then you know it is time to get another EGR valve. Do you need specs on the resistances to look for, and pin-out of the EGR valve connector? I don't have those quickly handy, but somebody else probably does; or I will do a search for it.
Yes I would like the specs if you got the chance. I ordered a new EGR with life time warranty anyways but Iíd still like to know
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

This is the best I've found so far. the diagram in reply #2 shows the pin-out. A and E are the coil and B-C-D are the pot connections.

I am getting the feeling from other threads I found that the coil resistance (pins A-E) should be about 8 ohms. I'm guessing the pot should be about 5k ohms end-to-end. You could, of course, compare readings with what you find on the new valve.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=175470
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Quote:
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:05 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2001 SW2 hesitation

Thanks, I only like to spend other people's money if they are willing

OP, I'd continue with billr's testing suggestions because those are free, but if you are getting oil bubbles from the EGR with the pintle closed with very little oil pressure applied, it is leaking and should not be. If there are no carbon chunks that are holding it open, either the seat or pintle are scored or it is sticking slightly open. If it can't be made to seal, it needs to be replaced as it must be leak-free - again, run the free checks before spending money.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out
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