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Old 02-18-2017, 06:18 PM   #1
Cavell
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Valve issue?

02 3.0. Just got it. Trying to fix vs scrap. Owner did timing belt. Last week motor won't crank. Mechanic said big issues? I pulled timing cover. Belt is fine. Timing marks are right on. But, crank will only rotate 30deg or so. Took off valve covers and timing belt. I think the firewall cam rotated about 6-8 teeth. Other cams stayed about same place. I can now rotate crank 360 deg. All 4 cams have free play. They can all twist 2-3 teeth CW/CCW. Dad thinks several valves may be stuck and cam lobe does not have enough leverage thru starter to let valve open. He says remove cams. And plugs. Ensure piston is down 1" in bore and try and depress cam bucket. Do these for each cyl and compare "effort". Sound good? Or just yank both heads now?
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:43 PM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Valve issue?

Good luck trying to press down against one valve and valve spring to test for bent valves. I think that's the reason for valve spring compressors, their ability to use a leveraged arm to compress a valve spring that's rated for several hundred pounds of force before they can compress. Even if you're removing camshafts, the valve springs cannot be compressed by hand unless you use a spring compressor jig/tool. At this point, you're probably better off removing both cylinder heads for a complete bench examination. With heads off, if the piston conrods aren't bent, you should be able to manually rotate the engine to see each piston reach top dead center to determine if a conrod bent - one piston will be below the top of the cylinder compared to others.

According to your descriptions of the engine not turning over with a starter or manually, and finding a severe mechanical restriction somewhere then freeing up whatever was stuck suggests something was bent (connecting rod, valve, broken camshaft, damaged timing belt, etc.).
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:05 AM   #3
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

Motor won't rotate with timing belt which moves valves. Remove belt and crank turns ok. Which points to top end issue.
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Old 02-19-2017, 07:40 PM   #4
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

I'd rent or buy an inspection camera and feed it into each spark plug hole so you can look at the valves before you pull the heads.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:41 PM   #5
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

Intake is off so I can see valves. I could pour fluid into ports and see which ones drain fast/slow?
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:11 PM   #6
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Valve issue?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'intake'. If you mean the intake runners that direct air to each cylinder and you can see the valve stems, this may not help if the engine cannot rotate manually with timing belt in place. When mechanically time correctly, the timing belt ensures all twenty four valves are opened and closed at the appropriate time in synch with all six pistons. Any mistiming can result in pistons meeting valves at the wrong time with damage from bent parts.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:30 PM   #7
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

Just talked to seller. He ran vue for almost 1 month after timing belt job. Than motor stalled. He said it did crank ok but would not fire. I could not crank motor by hand with belt in place. Crank will turn by hand without belt. All 4 cams turn with same effort. If 1 or more cylinders had bent valves where they were extended, wouldn't u feel a difference at that cylinder when u turn cam with ratchet?
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:21 PM   #8
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Valve issue?

Google pictures of any engine with cylinder heads removed. Your V6 has two banks of three pistons connecting all six pistons thru their connecting rods to a central crankshaft - all six pistons are mechanically fixed by design to run in a firing order. I can't recall firing order but its basically the opposite piston firing to balance combustion harmonics from throwing the engine around. Cylinders 1, 3, and 5 are in the back, cylinders 2, 4 and 6 in front. Each piston is timed mechanically to reach top dead center at specific timing intervals so the pistons appear in different positions in each cylinder when the cylinder heads are removed. With each piston in different positions, the cylinder head camshafts are synchronized mechanically via timing belt to open and close the twenty four valves in unison with each piston. This delicate timing balance is only thru mechanically adjusting all four camshafts to cylinder #1 at top dead center with timing marks on camshafts, crankshaft, engine block markings and timing chain. Once adjusted, timing lasts the life of the timing belt barring any major mechanical damage to throw off timing. Every engine turns over, manually or with a starter, presuming mechanical timing is perfect to allow engine running. When timing is altered or an engine isn't timed correctly, the mechanical timing may create a situation where the piston traveling upwards to top dead center meets one or more valves going downwards resulting in interference. Done at normal engine running speed, the result can be bent valves, broken connecting rods, broken camshafts and more. The engine cannot turn once this occurs and disassembling cylinder heads is one method to examine the damage as pistons and valves are exposed. Guessing at this point is moot as you confirmed the engine won't rotate unless the timing belt is removed. This simply indicates engine damage. Until you remove both cylinder heads, guessing is easy but cannot verify what broke, bent or snapped.
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:40 PM   #9
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

heads are not off yet. all 4 cams are rotated so all valves are closed. you can twist each sprocket a bit to feel it. i poured gas into intake ports and 4 of 6 cyls hold gas while 2 drain. i think of those 2 cyls 1 of the valves holds gas while 1 drains. so there are no cyls where both intake valves drain. fyi
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:52 AM   #10
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

timing belt is on. motor turns over by hand 360deg.
there is no intake plenum installed. upper or lower
no plugs, motor cranks fast with stater. zing.
plugs installed. motor still cranks fast. no chug-chug sound
added 1 oz oil thru plug hole. cranked without plugs.
cranked with plugs. same crank speed
checked compression. zero on front bank
1 cyl on back bank read 30 psi.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:12 PM   #11
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Valve issue?

Every 4-stroke engine rotates 720 degrees of crankshaft revolution to complete one combustion cycle. Rotating 360 degrees is only half a of a full engine rotation. The engine just be able to turn two full crankshaft revolutions to exercise every valve and camshaft. With plugs removed, a normal engine will rotate easily with starter use. Manually may be a little difficult but still doable to ensure timing is correct.

What do you mean by 'zing'? If you hear the starter make a high speed whining noise like a jet engine starting up without the engine turning over, you may be hearing a broken starter gear's one way clutch. It's rare for this to occur but it does occur where the Bendix clutch on the starter gear is damaged and cannot engage the starter shaft, resulting in the starter motor quickly spinning up to speed (jet engine sound) but never turning over the engine. If this is what you hear, the starter is damaged and needs to be replaced.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:19 PM   #12
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

zing meant fast. like a sewing machine. like cranking the starter with no cyl heads installed. like zero compression. i watched motor while it was cranking. starter turned crank which turn timing belt which turned all 4 cams
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:29 AM   #13
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Valve issue?

Ok, a (better) detailed explanation. Unfortunately, with zero compression on one cylinder and other compression numbers left out, you may be beating a dead horse until both cylinder heads are removed to examine pistons and valves. Its guessing if timing is completely wrong but allows the engine to turn over. You'll have to check for correct timing otherwise the heads should be removed. Even if you find timing as correct, zero compression points to at least one cylinder dead and whether its a burned valve or holed piston, any possibility of 5 cylinders running is not something to consider for every day driving. I'm not sure where you're going........
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:54 PM   #14
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

Heads are coming off. Don't have t-55 bit. Got 2 t-50's though. Exhaust and cats are only 1 month old so they should unbolt easy.
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Old 03-04-2017, 05:04 PM   #15
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

heads are off. all pistons have intake valve nicks. no exhaust valve nicks. is that just due to the shape of the combustion chamber? one head has a few valves stuck open but the 2nd head appears like all the valves are closed.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:41 PM   #16
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

I got some torx sockets. I did have an e10 but I used 12 point sockets for all the other bolts. Heads have been sitting on bench for 2 weeks. Waiting for temps to warm up
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: Valve issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavell View Post
heads are off. all pistons have intake valve nicks.
AS in ,unforseen/not designed for interference between pistons and valves brought on by bad valve timing/broken tbelts?
SOunds like interference damage...

Have a line on a running JY motor?
Heads sound toasted...
...
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:53 AM   #18
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

would be easier to put fresh heads on. but than you gotta throw dice that lower end is ok. not hard to find heads and motors locally. fixing vue is side project. i work on it when i feel like it
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:10 AM   #19
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2006 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Valve issue?

From what I just read in your posts, it appears that one cam sprocket spun on a camshaft. i.e belt is good and turns with crank being turned, but one cam was not turning.

So you have bent valves that need to be replaced. Take the heads to a machine shop that specializes in rebuilding heads and performing pressure testing. Check why the sprocket spun on the cam. It could be that the person that last worked on it replaced the cam seal, but forgot to tighten the cam bolt to spec torque.... or they had the locating pin or cleats offset slightly when the tightened the bolt.

Have the shop check the end of the camshaft for damage and explain to them what you think happened. Bring the sprocket in for them to look at too. Replace any damaged parts to avoid a repeat.

This is an expensive and labor intensive job.

When replacing the head(s) get quality gaskets and most likely you need new head bolts because most modern engines use torque-to-yield bolts that stretch and may not seal if re-used.

Good luck with your project.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:23 PM   #20
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Valve issue?

who knows for sure what happened? seller had friend do most of the work. i am pretty sure seller did not do timing belt job himself. he swears motor was not touched after it stalled. i verified all 4 cam sprockets were aligned prior to belt removal.
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