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Old 12-04-2006, 07:30 PM   #1
3.8TransAM
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1992 SL1
Default Thermostats: The Final Word

92 SL1 160k oil burning pile of #$&^%^

Anyhow.

Here is real data, since 98% of people here dont bother to actually test anything with real results.

All data is from 20deg F ambient daytime temp


Autozone thermostat(rated at 185deg F)

Hot at idle runs at roughly 82deg C. Maximum observed was 85 after prolonged idling. Driving temp was around 82-83deg C.

Stant thermostat(rated at 195, says 87deg C on it)

Hot at idle was 99-100deg C. Maximum observed was 101-103 after prolonged idling. Driving temp was 99-101 deg C

Saturn thermostat(supposedly 192-195F rating)

Hot at idle was 95deg C. Maximum observed was 97 deg C after prolonged driving and idle. Driving temp was 95-96 deg C.


In retrospect, use the stock SATURN thermostat, especially in cooler climates.
Has best warmup tendencies from my observations.

AZ t-stat runs too cool in anything other than warmer weather above 50deg F. Also opens early and tends to make warmup take longer. Wouldnt hesitate to use it in hotter climates.

Stant runs too hot. I dont even recommend it if you live where its low temps all yr round. At 20deg F ambient it is within 2 deg C of kicking the fans on. Would only recommend if everything is in tip top shape and your going for the ultimate mileage beater.

None of the tested t-stats tended to vary more than 3 deg C, so they were all working, just not quite right.(too hot or too cold)

The not too hot, not too cold winner, is the factory Saturn t-stat.

All data taken using a Snap On MT 2500

later
Jeremy

PS :Edit" Sorry I used the "Final Word" and its not Wolfman's realized it after the fact, still contains good valid data.

...
The car that is to dumb to die: 92 SL1

Fill the oil check the gas

Favorite quote while merging with traffic in the SL1 "I'm gonna die!"

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Old 12-04-2006, 09:44 PM   #2
GregS&L
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1995 SL2
Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

Good empirical data ^^^.

Replaced the thermostat in my daughter's 95 SL several years ago with the Saturn OEM unit - believe the OEM unit was made in Germany. Felt I had to replace because the temp gauge was only going up to the 1/4 mark, even in summer.

After replacement, the gauge now normally goes between 1/4 and 1/2 consistantly. The heater works better also. Well worth the effort.

Good post, thanks.

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Old 12-04-2006, 10:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

Where'd you get the stant? I think I got one at advance auto and I get a cruise temp of 206'F. Great for mileage and heat but a bit on the warm side of comfortable.

Cruise temps really are the only way to test these things as you get tons of airflow.

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Old 12-04-2006, 10:33 PM   #4
DonP
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

How many of each type did you test?

What is the average unit-to-unit variation in actual operating point vs rating among samples of the different models?

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Old 12-05-2006, 01:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

And I have been critisized for recommending ONLY OEM parts for some particular repairs...

...
Old Saturns never die, people KILL them, so check your damn oil!
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." Albert Einstein

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Old 12-05-2006, 03:39 AM   #6
3.8TransAM
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonP View Post
How many of each type did you test?

What is the average unit-to-unit variation in actual operating point vs rating among samples of the different models?
I tested about 10 of each to verify.

Avg was about 4.89238762184657389230 deg C between them.










What do u think this is a laboratory? I wanted to make my car run not too hot and not too cold. I wanted it just right. Dont u read childrens stories? lol

Crappy winter warm up and heat made me run around with the scanner. Verified them one at a time and posted the results as shown. Its consistent with what most here have posted, but no one ever bothers to actually test and provide data. Since I had it and verified it I posted it.


Also, to who asked about cruising temps, I did post them. check out where it says driving temps. this was on 40-50mph back roads and some 70 mph highway driving.

Wolfman, I figured if anyone would appreciate it, you would. Now I want to know why these garbage boxes are so damned finicky compared to everything else out there. lol

later
Jeremy

...
The car that is to dumb to die: 92 SL1

Fill the oil check the gas

Favorite quote while merging with traffic in the SL1 "I'm gonna die!"

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Old 12-05-2006, 10:26 AM   #7
DonP
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

With a few exception, t-stats tend to be rated in 5 degree steps. Values in the Stant catalog include: 205, 195, 190, 185, 180, 170, and 160, with a few odd-ball numbers (183, 186, 188). Literature states that the heat motors in t-stats are 100 percent tested for calibration. Makes me think that they are manufactured with a view to providing a specific heat rating, then tested, and binned/labeled by the actual operating temp.

Thus a 195 might be any unit that operated between 200 and 192.5; over 200 and less than perhaps 210 might be rated a 205, 190 pight be any one that operated betwen 187.5 and 192.5, and so on.

Interesting that at idle, presumably with no air flow through the radiator except than when the fan is running, the engine never reached the temp for fan turn-on. Perhaps the below freezing 20 degree F ambient temp was the reason.

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Old 12-05-2006, 12:52 PM   #8
eljefino
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

Yes, anecdotes by themselves are rather useless but get a few people with scantools and you might spot a trend.

3.8 transam and I are the only ones to have plugged in, gotten precise data, and posted, so far.

There was a poster some time ago trying to get better MPG; if we can prove the stant is an econo-thermostat that might be useful info.

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Old 12-05-2006, 03:51 PM   #9
DonP
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

Measured cruise (open road) temps can reflect the influrence of other factors in addition to the t-stat operating temp, such as effective aperture through the t-stat when open, efficiency of the radiator, condition of the core, ambient air temperature, air flow thorugh the radiator, engine load, whether or not A/C is on, heater on/off, and so on. Tests in the same car reduces the variables.

Of interest of course is the overall system operation in the car during intended use. 3.8TranAm's post onhis tests provides useful data points for which he deserves thanks.

FWIW: The Stant catalog has a special page on Saturn t-stats with instructions (attached). At least they take our market segment serious. I believe that Stant and Gates are owned by the same parent company (Tomkins Industrial and Automotive group) - wonder if their t-stats are now off the same or shared production lines?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Stant-Saturn-T-Stat.pdf (64.7 KB, 31 views)

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Old 12-05-2006, 04:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Thermostats: The Final Word

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
And I have been critisized for recommending ONLY OEM parts for some particular repairs...
My philosophy is if in doubt use OEM parts...or, follow Wolfman's recommendations here...

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...+PARTS+WOLFMAN

I am very happy with my OEM thermostat. Made in Germany. Makes my car feel a little like a Mercedes...

...
Truth alone triumphs, not untruth.

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