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Old 09-10-2011, 12:21 PM   #1
racinginblood
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Default gas milege

well i got the dreaded 420 code,i changed cat and downstream o2 i have no exhaust leaks cats 3 months old along with 02.this car is an sl1 .this my gas milege i am getting.620km on 45.5 liters of fuel at 129.0 this is to the fuel light on does this seem logical i remember getting over 700kms at one time that was pushing it though .this is all based on highway kms.can anybody explain if the upstream is gone and would that set the ses light fuel milege seems to have gone to the dumps the car has no misfire i pulled the rear 02 looks fine no black soot .i looked into the bung hole of cat looks fine. i also pulled the upstream that looks clean also just seems like the gas milege is not there anymore
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: gas milege

You are running slightly rich. Operating temperature should be 3/8 on gauge. Plugs and wires, how old and what brand of plugs? Have you done anything with the fuel filter/regulator?
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: gas milege

if the upstream oxygen sensor is crapping out, it should set a code. typically a lean or a rich code, possibly a slow response code.
if that sensor is in fact reading incorrectly, it would definitely reduce the fuel economy.

and you may just need some maintenence.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: gas milege

operating temp is normal little under halfwaymark on the guage never changed fuel filter or regulator i dont think that will set a420 code seems cat below efficiency code again i should be getting atleast 700 kms out of it wires are fine no misses with water on them or sparks changed plugs to the copper core ngks and denso downstream o2 sensor
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: gas milege

Wires can be far from fine and not have failed insulation. The 420 is due to the right condition. Are you sure that there are no holes in the pipe between the head and the CAT inlet? How did you test it?
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: gas milege

climed under car looked for soot marks on pipe ran it and checked again with my hand definately no leaks even sprayed carb cleaner all over no changes in idle could it be the cat again doesnt smell bad out the tailpipe dripping moisture so cat is working?
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: gas milege

CAT is working. Did you check the manifold to pipe flange?

Idle will not change for an exhaust leak.
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: gas milege

manifold to pipe flange is okay checked for leaks with my hand on a cold starup no leaks there i think it its eather cat or 02s no symtoms of running rich low compression? could cause it i think i need to do the old torch and mutimeter to rule out o2s also crawled underneath to look at manifold flange def no leaks you would hear it there forsure so you say cat is working?christ its only 3 months old banged on it nothing loose colour looks okay so it never overheated and melted substrate lazy upstream or heated rear checked all wires to the os2 look like new checked for bent pins none on the plugin checked routing of wires to o2 looks good i rest the light with a friends basic code reader and it came back on with a few short drives after that just seems hard on gas im not getting the milege im used to 640 per tank and thats pushing it should get at least 700 im getting robbed at least 60km per tank at least

Last edited by racinginblood; 09-10-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: gas milege

The CAT is fine. You will not either see or hear the leak that is causing you r problem. Shut off the engine and direct a low pressure blower at the muffler outlet, don't directly connect it, just close. Now go feeling for the leak. Exhaust manifold, flex joint, and lower support clamp are good places to look.
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: gas milege

Another method of finding exhaust leaks is to pour a bit of tranny fluid down the intake. Watch where the smoke comes out of the exhaust.

OldNuc, I'm curious to know why you feel that the original poster's car is running slightly rich. Nothing in the original code specified anything to definitely indicate this.

Original poster, punctuation and proper sentence structure are your friends.

P0420 can be caused by many miles of oil burning (typical of Saturns). It can also be caused by light misfiring. Unless the exhaust is perfectly smooth, then you have misfires. It is normal, as the oxygen sensor swings lean-rich-lean-rich for there to possibly be an ever so slight stumble when it swings rich, but otherwise it should be perfectly smooth. Any other roughness indicates misfires. Old plugs and wires can cause this. Faulty ignition coils can also cause this. It would be wise to measure their secondary resistances at room temperature. They should be slightly over 8K ohms.

It would also be wise to run a compression test to find any leaking valves or rings, as valves can leak ever so slightly and not throw a misfire code or make for a major misfire. Light stumblings will wear out the cat, however.

It would be good to thoroughly clean the injectors if they have not been cleaned in a while. If an MPI engine, if the injectors get out of balance from deposit accumulation, some cylinders will run rich and some lean. Improper combustion will result in excess hydrocarbons reaching the cat, which taxes it. If it has been a while since the injectors have been cleaned, pour a few cans of cleaner in 1/4 tank of gas so that it runs in high concentration.

It would also be a good idea to spray some throttle body cleaner in the throttle body so-as to clean the intake valves of deposits and grime that might prevent proper seating. SeaFoam is a good agent for cleaning out the engine if poured slowly through the intake. It dissolves petroleum based deposits well. B12 Chemtool has some strong solvents that work better on the varnishes and other deposits that might be present.

Please perform these tests. If you don't, you are just shooting in the dark.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:08 AM   #11
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Default Re: gas milege

im gonna do the muffler air compressor thing this car does all hwy kms and burns not adrop of oil itravel 250kms 6 days aweek al of a sudden last couple of tanks of gas has been brutal on the milege quarter tank to travel 125 kms does not seem logical i took the rear o2 out today and sprayed it with carb cleaner checked all wires and put it back tonite i brought it to work and all of a sudden i am hardly using any gas and every thing seems normal although the ses light is still on i will obd it in the morning to clear it and see if it comes back on it weird thats forsure could a lean rich lean rich go on for awhile then all of a sudden stop yes i will put some injector cleaner in i dont think its ever been done
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: gas milege

okwellifeverythingsfinenowandit'snotconsumingexces sgasIguessyouhaveitallundercontrolnownotsurewhatto tellyouyawellhopeeverythingworksoutforyougoodluck
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: gas milege

Quote:
Originally Posted by racinginblood View Post
im gonna do the muffler air compressor thing this car does all hwy kms and burns not adrop of oil itravel 250kms 6 days aweek al of a sudden last couple of tanks of gas has been brutal on the milege quarter tank to travel 125 kms does not seem logical i took the rear o2 out today and sprayed it with carb cleaner checked all wires and put it back tonite i brought it to work and all of a sudden i am hardly using any gas and every thing seems normal although the ses light is still on i will obd it in the morning to clear it and see if it comes back on it weird thats forsure could a lean rich lean rich go on for awhile then all of a sudden stop yes i will put some injector cleaner in i dont think its ever been done
An O2 sensor is easily contaminated and destroyed by spraying with any cleaners.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: gas milege

thankstdyourarejustsodamnkindwithyourcomments
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: gas milege

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thankstdyourarejustsodamnkindwithyourcomments
Have you read your posts? Very hard to understand and follow. Perhaps if you proofread before posting? Perhaps too if you helped those of us in the lower 48 understand your way of computing fuel "mileage?" (don't know what you folks in metric land call it) but we have no way short of getting out a slide rule or calculator to figure out what your performance is.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: gas milege

It was about 34mpg. I have a calculator.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: gas milege

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Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
It was about 34mpg. I have a calculator.
Well depending on driving conditions that is fine especially on a twin cam.
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: gas milege

It was slightly higher in the past.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: gas milege

i guess you didnt read shes an sl1 in the upper provinces of canada that means a single overhead cam
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: gas milege

wow under the hoodie sure knows alot about kartz i guess but outside of rockfoed there just aint much
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