SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2021, 03:50 AM   #1
Brian90638
Junior Member
Brian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 12

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Question Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

My 2002 LW300 (3.0 liter V6) had been experiencing a slight hesitation from idle to acceleration. I also noticed a very slight mis at cruising speeds (maybe 50 rpm hiccup). I thought it was tune up related or maybe a slight vacuum leak but overall it was very slight and not affecting the drivability.

Approx a month later I was driving on the freeway at approx 70 mph and the car started bucking. Check Engine light was blinking for several seconds then went solid. I could smell something like unburnt fuel and light colored smoke was visibly coming from the exhaust pipes. The car did not stall but ran poorly for the remainder of my trip to work. I happened to have my ODB code reader and after parking and turning the car off I read the codes P193 and P301. I cleared the codes and restarted the car. Ran rough, then threw a code. I checked it and it was only P301. I drove the car home after work and nothing changed. Check engine light remained on and car drove very rough. I will say it drove best at higher speeds/RPM. It also drank gas at a much higher rate.

After doing some research I checked the down stream o2 sensor on bank 1 and the sensor was operating. The P193 code never reappeared, only P301. Based on my research I changed the spark plugs and coil packs. The old plugs appeared ok, the old coil packs appeared ok but I have no idea how to test them. None the less, I replaced the spark plugs and coil packs with brand new parts. Sadly, the problem still persists. Car still idles rough, still smokes (heavy fuel smell), and 'check engine' light came on flashing.

My questions, what should I be checking next and can you provide instruction? Please start with the simplest checks/solutions first.

Once the discussion gets going I may have other questions. Thank you for your assistance.
Brian90638 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-29-2021, 09:49 AM   #2
Rj 2000 LS2
Advanced Member
Rj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really nice
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 672

2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

The key bit of information you provided is, "it seemed to run better at high speeds". This is a tell tail sign you have a vacuum leak! At high RPMs vacuum leaks disappear. Don't waste time thinking it is an o2 sensor, but it is not. O2 codes can appear if the vacuum leak is rather large.

There are videos on YT that show how to make your own smoke machine. I recommend you build one and pump smoke into your intake and look for the smoke around the upper intake rubber tubes. One of them has a hole.

I would like to say, you provided excellent diagnostic explanations of the problem! Good Luck!
Rj 2000 LS2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2021, 01:57 PM   #3
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,314
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

1- mileage of this car?
2-P0301 is cylinder #1 misfiring.

Please check and verify error codes. The prefix letters P, C, U or B indicate one of four areas - Powertrain, Chassis, U-network or Body control module error. All letters are followed with four numbers, not three.

With plugs and ignition coil packs replaced, this means cylinder #1 misfiring may be either a stuck/sticking injector, loss of compression fault or burned exhaust valve. Injectors rarely fail. One way to test injector faults would be moving the suspect injector from where it is to another cylinder, swapping injectors around to see if the suspect injector moves the problem to the other cylinder. The error code P0301 cyl #1 misfire may become P030? (2,3,4,5,6)- whichever cylinder the suspect injector is moved to. This is time consuming and labor intensive with removing many parts above the engine before having access to injectors. A cylinder compression test is easier since you(?) already replaced plugs and a compression gauge simply requires removal of one plug and screwing in the adapter/hose into the spark plug hole then cranking the engine for a few seconds to pump up gauge pressure until the needle stops moving at the highest value (190 psi). Below 185 psi would be cause for concern. Other cylinders should be measured for comparison so cylinders 1-3 should be measured.

If you perform any compression test be sure to remove the fuel pump fuse, pump relay or injector fuse to prevent injectors and pressurized fuel injecting fuel into cylinders during compression tests. Replace them once testing is concluded.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2021, 11:56 PM   #4
Rj 2000 LS2
Advanced Member
Rj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really niceRj 2000 LS2 is just really nice
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 672

2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

Ahhh, he did ask specifically, "Please start with the simplest checks/solutions first." Switching injectors is not by far the simplest first! Those recommendations might be good if the vehicle was only 10 years old, but when they hit 20... most of the rubber and plastic is springing leaks. The issue here is vacuum leak. No need to tear the engine apart to switch injectors. That alone can create problems as the plastic parts are easily broken.
Rj 2000 LS2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2021, 09:33 PM   #5
BrandonKastning
Senior Member
BrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the roughBrandonKastning is a jewel in the rough
 
BrandonKastning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 1,497

2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Information Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

Brian90638,

Welcome to saturnfans; I looked up both of your codes and I was not able to find P193 (perhaps I overlooked my L81 engine FSM).

I attached 3 pages that pertain to P0301; I hope it aids your repair.

Best Regards,

Brandon
(Still a Saturn L300 3.0L V6 owner because of these guys and my determination).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian90638 View Post
My 2002 LW300 (3.0 liter V6) had been experiencing a slight hesitation from idle to acceleration. I also noticed a very slight mis at cruising speeds (maybe 50 rpm hiccup). I thought it was tune up related or maybe a slight vacuum leak but overall it was very slight and not affecting the drivability.

Approx a month later I was driving on the freeway at approx 70 mph and the car started bucking. Check Engine light was blinking for several seconds then went solid. I could smell something like unburnt fuel and light colored smoke was visibly coming from the exhaust pipes. The car did not stall but ran poorly for the remainder of my trip to work. I happened to have my ODB code reader and after parking and turning the car off I read the codes P193 and P301. I cleared the codes and restarted the car. Ran rough, then threw a code. I checked it and it was only P301. I drove the car home after work and nothing changed. Check engine light remained on and car drove very rough. I will say it drove best at higher speeds/RPM. It also drank gas at a much higher rate.

After doing some research I checked the down stream o2 sensor on bank 1 and the sensor was operating. The P193 code never reappeared, only P301. Based on my research I changed the spark plugs and coil packs. The old plugs appeared ok, the old coil packs appeared ok but I have no idea how to test them. None the less, I replaced the spark plugs and coil packs with brand new parts. Sadly, the problem still persists. Car still idles rough, still smokes (heavy fuel smell), and 'check engine' light came on flashing.

My questions, what should I be checking next and can you provide instruction? Please start with the simplest checks/solutions first.

Once the discussion gets going I may have other questions. Thank you for your assistance.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_20211001_182416.jpg (101.9 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 2_20211001_182427.jpg (88.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 3_20211001_182442.jpg (92.9 KB, 6 views)
...
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” - John 3:16 (KJV)

Last edited by BrandonKastning; 10-01-2021 at 09:33 PM. Reason: credits
BrandonKastning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2021, 02:26 PM   #6
Russet
Senior Member
Russet has a spectacular aura aboutRusset has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,326

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2002 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

I would check the Coil pack and plugs but that requires taking alot of hardware out to see. But if they hadn't changed plugs or checked their coil packs it could be one of those failures.

For the error code if correct is what I get.
https://www.autocodes.com/p0301_saturn.html
P0301 SATURN code possible causes
Faulty spark plug 1
Clogged or faulty fuel injector 1
Faulty ignition coil 1
Fuel injector 1 harness is open or shorted
Fuel injector 1 circuit poor electrical connection
Ignition coil 1 harness is open or shorted
Ignition coil 1 circuit poor electrical connection
Insufficient cylinder 1 compression
Incorrect fuel pressure
Intake air leak

Read more: https://www.autocodes.com/p0301_saturn.html

Last edited by Russet; 10-02-2021 at 02:29 PM. Reason: revise
Russet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 12:22 AM   #7
Brian90638
Junior Member
Brian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 12

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. The helpfulness is what keeps older cars on the road and running [until the current administration outlaws them altogether lol].

I know how to work on cars enough to get the job done with my limited tools but diagnoses isn't my strongest skill. In hindsight, I probably should have recognized my own typed analysis posted above. "Strong smell of fuel, misfire cyl #1, replaced plugs/coil packs and still happening".

After a couple days, I thought, it really only can be an injector gone bad. I ordered an injector (4 days for delivery) and began the arduous task of pulling the upper plenum off [why make this so challenging?]. I tested all the injectors in place [elec disconnected] and all tested ok. WTF? I was hoping for an obvious bad one. Then I pulled them all out along with the rail and guess what....#1 was straight leaking all over the place. I replaced the solo bad injector with the fresh part and reassembled.

On start up the car still smoked like crazy but ran great with no codes. I continued to drive it for another 10 min and the smoke all went away and the car performed even better than it has in 2-3 yrs.

I wish I had the funds to replace all 6. They are quite pricey at roughly $60-120 each.

All in all the car runs excellent. It still has a slight recurring RPM hicup/hesitation going up grades under medium pedal load. Could be a vacuum issue of, maybe another injector is beginning to fail. Idle is great. No codes.

Again, thanks everyone. This is literally the best forum for Saturn owners.
Brian90638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 11:27 AM   #8
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,314
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

Finding a leaking injector is rare. This may point to a faulty fuel filter allowing dirt past filter material to clog injectors, fuel contamination creating deposits or just a faulty injector.

Fuel filters replaced every 100k miles per recommendations.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 12:26 AM   #9
Brian90638
Junior Member
Brian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of lightBrian90638 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 12

2003 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Finding a leaking injector is rare. This may point to a faulty fuel filter allowing dirt past filter material to clog injectors, fuel contamination creating deposits or just a faulty injector.

Fuel filters replaced every 100k miles per recommendations.
I replaced that about 10k miles ago. Wouldn't hurt to do it again. Cheap insurance.
Brian90638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 04:09 PM   #10
floridasl22002
Senior Member
floridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to beholdfloridasl22002 is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,606

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

Brian,

Check out Rock Auto for fuel injectors. Their cheapest is $26.79 plus a $10.00 core charge. There are also YT videos where folks have jerry rigged a pipe system for checking the injector operation and also cleaning them.

As for a vacuum leak, you do a diy smoke test. One diy method is using a cigar then blowing the smoke up into the vacuum pipes.

I don't think that your fuel pump could be at fault. A pump going out and running at lower than spec pressures will also show itself in hard starting. I have just gone through that with my son's 2003 L300 V6.

One other thing to consider and I may be wide of the mark on this is where do you get your gas? Small independent stations that don't do a lot of business are more likely to have fuel that is older as well as older storage tanks and more likely to become contaminated. Busier garages will be selling fresher gas that's stored in newer tanks. Nothing worse than bad gas in cars and humans! LOL

For the cost involved, I'd buy a couple of inexpensive bottles of system cleaner from Walmart, like Supertech stuff. For about a buck a bottle, they won't perform miracles, but throw in a couple and it helps clean the innards of the system.
floridasl22002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 06:39 PM   #11
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 45,314
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Code P301 - 2002 LW300 V6

My fuel pump decided to croak one state away a few years ago with around 75k miles . Insurance covered towing (under 60 miles) but the towing outfit initially refused (informed sources told me it may be the tolls adding to the fees).

According to general info, supposedly every gas station pump has a filter on each pump. Filtering when filling tanker trucks too. And final filtering in every vehicle.

Theory says to avoid a gas station when filling up. Supposedly underground tanks being refilled stir up sediment that may enter into our vehicles. I've done that a few times over the decades.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Misfire p301 Jordanaasquith S-Series General 6 01-21-2015 06:30 PM
2003 lw300 trans code,v6 dad2003 L-Series Tech 17 12-18-2008 03:46 AM
LW300: SES Code P0300? MikeM-SL2 L-Series General 23 04-02-2006 10:30 AM
LW300 V6 P0449 Code Mahnken L-Series Tech 1 01-14-2006 06:57 PM
P301 codes made easy? wolfman S-Series Tech 5 08-30-2005 09:48 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.