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Old 01-13-2019, 01:50 AM   #1
NV-Saturn-Sam
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Default 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Good evening Saturn community, I've been a lurker for far too long. I decided to join and help other people and myself saving these amazing cars for future drivers. I've found a 2002 SL2 5speed for sale on CL for $425. Owner said it clunked while engaging clutch. I inspected it, trans was extremely low on fluid and there was a stain on street from atf. I took it for a test drive and immediately heard a crazy whine while in gear with or without throttle. No whine while idling, coasting or in reverse. I've searched numerous threads but most are autos. I know about the diff pin but would it still be able to drive and coast if the pin broke up with the diff? I will be going back tomorrow with ramps, fluid and cash. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

...
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:27 AM   #2
Waiex191
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

My understanding of the diff pin failure is the pin fails, the shaft slides out, and the spider gears are no longer positively located. Then it hand grenades.

Likely sources of whine would be bearings or gears. Either way I would plan on replacing the transmission with the one from your parts car.

Here is what is inside:


Not a bad idea to do the diff pin mod on the replacement transmission. That is my plan for the '98. My prior adventure at post 174:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=230898&page=9

PS welcome to the forums. I am a former lurker who came onboard.

...
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Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018

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Old 01-13-2019, 09:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Dif pin failure is totally quiet until the trans case grenades. Pull the VSS and use a LED light and mirror to look at the ends of the diff pin. Whine is likely chronic low fluid, fill only 1/2 way up cross hatch. There are a couple of bearings that are lubricant starved with low fluid and once filled things may quiet down. How long it will run is only diagnosed by experience and that requires a actual live in person listen, video is a waste of time. In most cases if the whine can not be heard long before you see the car coming it is drivable.

Diff pin check: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gqhGC5vKDY

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Old 01-13-2019, 10:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

I would drain the fluid and replace it with decent synthetic. About 10 years ago, I bought an older gen1 SC2 that had a whining 5 speed when I got it. Draining and filling with fresh fluid mostly made the noise disappear. It only takes a few minutes to drain and fill. Preferred fluids would be on this list:

https://www.allisontransmission.com/...highway-fluids

If you can't find one of those, I used:

https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-tr.../synthetic-atf

You'll need about 2.5qts as I recall.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU USE DEXRON VI.

Best,

...
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Stay far away from the Allison fluid suppliers as they are all lower than desired viscosity. The older Allison fluid viscosity is fine, if you can find it now. Must use a Dexron-3 viscosity fluid. cSt7.5 @100C is desired. Thinner than that and you will have shifts blocked on random upshifts and you can forget downshifts.

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Old 01-13-2019, 11:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Thanks everyone for your input. I was thinking intermediate shaft bearing or something. I will fill up the trans today and pray the howl calms down. Normally on my mt saturns I use WM supertech atf $15 for a gallon isn't bad. I'm puzzled as where the leak would be coming from. Seems like it's in the middle near the oil pan sump. I will be heading over at 10am pst, I'll keep you guys posted.

...
97 SL2 DOHC/5SPD-Parts Car 181k
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:30 PM   #7
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1998 SC2
Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

It is possible the quill seal has failed. That is why you never fill that box over 1/2 way up on the crosshatch. The whine is from clearance issues between all the gears and they will never be quiet. If fresh fill does not fix it and it leaks go dig up another transmission as that will be the cheap fix. A leaking quill seal pours ATF directly onto the clutch and it is a tricky replacement requiring trans disassembly.

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Old 01-13-2019, 03:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

So after dumping 2.5qts into her, noise still persisted. It also dumped all the fluid out on the test drive. It was a hard thing to do but I had to pass. I will continue my hunt for a $500 Satty

...
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Thanks for the info OldNuc but between the wife's Audi and everyone in my family having car troubles I can't take on anymore projects. Don't get me wrong I would love to drop the subframe and replace the transmission with a pick n rip one. If only I had a shop. Also thanks for all your contribution to the saturn community. Between you and richpin, you're the reason I'm able to keep ****ing the cars.

...
97 SL2 DOHC/5SPD-Parts Car 181k
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98 SL1 DOHC/5SPD-Swap Pending

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Old 01-13-2019, 05:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

So, does the NV in your handle indicate you are in Nevada?
If so, there is a 2001 SL2, runs great - $800 in Syracuse, Utah.
High miles, no AC, 5-speed.

Or if you really want to splurge, up in Boise, there is: Hunter Green Saturn SC1 3-Door Coupe. Leather interior, automatic for 3K with 130K on it.

https://boise.craigslist.org/cto/d/e...787360222.html

Last edited by toggenburg; 01-13-2019 at 05:56 PM..

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Old 01-13-2019, 07:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Toggenburg yes I'm in Northern Nevada. Thanks for the heads up but I found a 2001 Sc2 5spd 3 door with 100k for $1k in Cali. I would post the link but I can't yet. Kinda over my budget but I've always wanted a coupe. I'm stuck on paying only $500 for these rust free Saturns. Should've never sold my 99 sl2 it must've had great compression because it was the quickest Satty I've driven. Even the lady that bought it said it was fast for a Saturn.

...
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Stay far away from the Allison fluid suppliers as they are all lower than desired viscosity. The older Allison fluid viscosity is fine, if you can find it now. Must use a Dexron-3 viscosity fluid. cSt7.5 @100C is desired. Thinner than that and you will have shifts blocked on random upshifts and you can forget downshifts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON
“Dexron VI is of a slightly lower viscosity when new compared to the prior Dexron fluids (a maximum of 6.4 cSt at 100 °C for Dexron VI and 7.5 cSt for Dexron III), but the allowed viscosity loss from shearing of the ATF during use is lower for Dexron VI, resulting in the same lowest allowed final viscosity for both Dexron III and VI (5.5 cSt) in test.[5] In reality most of the DEXRON-III fluids typically sheared to about 4.2 cSt in use. The lower, more stable viscosity improved pumping efficiency within the transmission and fluid stability over life. Since Dexron VI is not allowed to thin out (lower its viscosity) as much as Dexron III during use, it requires the use of higher-quality, more shear-stable (less prone to thinning while in use) formulations.”

Mobil Delvac ATF CST is 7.3 at 100 C...
https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Com...l-Delvac-1-ATF

...
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

That Wiki article is old data and bears no relationship to the present crop of Universal ATF formulations.

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Old 01-13-2019, 09:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

Mobil1's Synthetic "multi-vehicle" ATF has a cSt @ 100C of 7.4. That's what worked for me.

Best,

...
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:28 AM   #15
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Default Re: 02 SL2 5speed crazy whine

The old school Dex III I first used (when it was still Dex III licensed) was below a 7 cSt at 100. And it never blocked shifts in any way, shape or form.

More internet myth about exacting requirements that never existed.


AFAIK, the TES 295 was supplemented by the TES 389 spec to allow for non synthetic fluids to be used, but both were specs that were DEX III based.

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