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Old 03-05-2018, 02:18 PM   #1
Humble2002L300
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Default Engine Shuts off going in to Drive

Hello Saturn Family. I have a 2002 L300 242667 Miles - i Got it at 189500 - I did the fuel pump, Fuel Filter, Sending unit - Radiator and Trans cooler lines - Thermostat -- Greatest Car accomplishment of my life - Gaskets associated with Thermostat. Cleaned throttle Body and Intake Plenum - (I have a valve knock that i cant figure out so i have yet to attack that problem) - The alternator -

I do not consider myself a mechanic and have had to read a lot to get what i needed to get done. If it wasn't for this community i would not have been able to do the Thermostat. So i come to you with a list of things i know and the one MAJOR Problem that is Plaguing me.

1. - When i go in to Reverse or at times when i put the car in to drive the car shuts off.

I hear a Clicking sound in the center console that directly relates to the Temperature Gauge Dropping then coming back up. I thought this was a safety Relay. Like a roll over switch or Neutral Safety switch.

2. - the Traction control is not working. i don't know if its the switch on the central console or if this relates to the random Electrical issues i have.

3. I have a valve knock. im guessing that this is an exhaust Valve and i have been avoiding this because im guessing that it will take more than what it took for me to do the thermostat and this is my main car and i have no garage to work in.

I have a mouse in the car. I know that. i have ripped apart my center console looking him and any chewed wires.

The main problem is the car shutting off. i have no clue why or what caused that. i dont know if it could be the Idle Air Control Valve. or a Neutral safety Switch.

Any leads or what could cause that?

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Old 03-05-2018, 03:20 PM   #2
fdryer
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Engine Shuts off going in to Drive

Whether you want to be described as one or not, you're a diyer and that implies enough skills to repair anything with tools at low cost. If you aren't a diy mechanic willing to work on your own vehicles then you aren't interested in help and will pay a dealer or repair shop. Most of us here are diyers. I'm not certified with ASE and belong to the world wide club of DIYERS. Just another Saturn member.

The Park/Neutral safety switch is on the xmission case to prevent engine starting in 'D' or 'R'. You won't hear it fail as much as know if the car can start in 'D' or 'R' or if starting won't occur in Park or Neutral position. The relay clicking may be the brake/xmission shift interlock under the shift boot when pressing the brake pedal before shifting. There are several relays in both fuse panels (driver and passenger door well) that may click too. One solenoid clicking comes from the rear fuel fill pipe vent solenoid at stops when I hear it cycle on and off while waiting for the light to change. It's normal behavior.

Traction control only activates when deliberately trying to peel rubber (front tires) when it will occur for a very brief moment before the abs/tc system detects one wheel spinning faster than the other where abs/tc stops wheel spin while flashing or turning on the TC symbol on either the tach or speedometer. As soon as traction is restored to both wheels, the TC symbol is turned off. Are you certain traction control is disabled? The TC button is usually lit when ignition is turned on. You have to manually turn off TC by pressing the TC button to disable traction control and light. Then you can spin a drive wheel when flooring the pedal. The traction control system is integrated into the abs system. A simple test for traction control when it's disabled - try spinning front wheels on a wet/icy/snow covered ground or on a gravel or dirt road. In normal conditions, TC is enabled and will not allow front wheel spin. When disabled, you can spin a front wheel all you want. It's unusual to lose only traction control when it's more likely to lose the entire abs/tc system from damage to external wiring to each wheel, speed sensor and reluctor. Hardware fails long before electronics in abs systems. ABS/TC failure does not affect brakes.

With mileage approaching 300k miles, the timing belt is well overdue for replacement along with the water pump, every 100k miles. Was this ever done? This may or may not be contributing to random engine die off when shifting into gear. The simplest troubleshooting with this problem can begin with replacing the fuel pump relay with a known good one, connecting a fuel pressure gauge to monitor pressures when the engine dies off. Did this occur before or/and after pump replacement? The fuel system is one factor. Ignition is another and a little more difficult to diagnose. Wiring to the EFI system may be questionable and you are in the only position to judge condition whether or not contributing to erratic problems. The EFI system requires two electronic modules to communicate to each other at ignition turn on, the ECM/engine computer and BCM/body control module to send a go/no go Passlock theft signal to the ECM before allowing engine running. Nothing you described points to a problem between these two modules unless you see the security light flash on and off while driving or when the engine dies off when shifting.

Our 3.0L V6 engines use drive by wire systems - electric throttle, electronic pedal. No idle air control valve. An electric motor drives the throttle plate with dial position sensors for redundancy and safety in the throttle body and pedal.

I'm at a loss trying to figure this out. Maybe more symptoms from you can help.

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Old 03-05-2018, 05:16 PM   #3
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: Engine Shuts off going in to Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
......With mileage approaching 300k miles, the timing belt is well overdue for replacement along with the water pump, every 100k miles. Was this ever done? This may or may not be contributing to random engine die off when shifting into gear......
FWIW, a worn timing belt could contribute to the valve knocking also. I'd experienced this kind of thing with a '98 Nissan Quest, 3.0L V6, where the timing belt was in need of replacement. Under moderate to heavier acceleration a valve knock would occur. Once the belt was replaced the knocking was eliminated. (An over-stretched belt was the culprit.)

...
321,000 miles - Holy canolli!
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Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

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Old 03-05-2018, 07:49 PM   #4
floridasl22002
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Engine Shuts off going in to Drive

I can't offer any advice on the mouse or the stalling in reverse, however I can give you some feedback on the knocking.

My son has a 2003 L300 V6. We bought it 2.5 years ago with 120K on the clock. As I could not determine from the seller whether the timing belt had been replaced at 100K, I asked my indie garage who were replacing a leaking ac line and an O2 sensor on the car. They told me it hadn't been changed, so they changed it along with all the usual stuff at that side of the engine, ie water pump, timing belt KIT.

I would say for about 1 year, I started to hear a knocking sound from the engine which was difficult to locate. I went over it with the stethoscope, but no joy. I was convinced it was a valve lifter(s) that had failed. My indie garage guy also noted the noise and said we need to do something about that as he too was concerned what it maybe.

So about 2 months ago I bit the bullet and in the car went. The cause of the knocking was a pulley on the timing belt upper pulley bracket that was banging against the bracket itself. How it all came about was a mystery. You could see how the pulley was wearing away the bracket. We also found another little gem with the lower pulley wheel. The mechanic who did the job is long gone I should point out.

The timing pulleys on the L300 have undergone about 3 revisions since the car was introduced. If you look at kits, the early pulley wheels were NON adjustable. Revisions made later changed it to an Adjustable pulley wheel. What we found was that when the mechanic ermoved the pulley wheel he threw away a large washer which went between the pulley wheel and the block. Then he came to fit the adjustable wheel and must have found that when he tried to bolt it on and adjust it, the wheel rubbed against the block as there was no clearance (caused by none other than throwing away the friggin spacer). So what does bright spark do? He then mounts the adjustable pulley backwards, so the adjuster is on the back face and impossible to get to BUT he has the clearance he needs and keeps quiet, buttons it up and hands it to me the customer as job done!! To get the spacer, we had to purchase a new pulley wheel from the main dealer (only ones who carry them), so the car now has the non-adjustable pulley wheel complete with spacer. To get the spacer cost me $80.00 for the new pulley!! I queried this with the Main Dealer who confirmed that fitting this non-adjustable pulley instead of the OEM adjustable was not detrimental to the cars safety or well being other wise they would not sell it.

The upshot of this long story is that was what causing the knocking, which sounded just like a valve knock.

So if your timing belt is way overdue for changing, you may have the same pulley wearing on the bracket was we did. So get the timing belt and ancilliaries changed pronto.

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