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Old 04-09-2020, 12:29 PM   #281
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonKastning View Post
lbraner,

Thank you for that. Do you advise the GM service manual on 4 binders + 7 books (Paper) or try the online data "alldata" that fdryer was discussing.

I will compare both available options!

Appreciate the details.
Well I am old school so I like the paper manuals. Also you only have to pay for them once.
To be clear, the 7 or so books are contained in the binders.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:36 PM   #282
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Brandon, I agree with RJ2000, slow down and avoid going off script.

That said the IMRC component is something we had an issue with on my son's 2003 L300. It's a simple throttle type valve assembely that is operated by a vacuum diaphragm that opens and closes the butterfly valve to increase the amount of air needed at acceleration (above 3950 rpm). That is the rev threshold when the CPM commands the solenoid valve to open the valve.

Here's what I did to clean it up and then reinstall. We never had any issues after doing these things; Clean it up generally and get rid of crap that clearly should not be there, like oil & grease crap. Lubricate with wd40 or engine oil the mechanicla parts that should rotate, like the big spring. Carefully pull of the plastic ball joint and lubricate with oil or vaseline and then reinstall. The biggest problem we found was the diaphragm unit. It was not moving inside for whatever reason. It is a sealed unit, so all I did was hold vertically and spray and allow WD40 to penetrate inside the unit. It totally freed up the internal mechanism and has worked perfectly since. This task should take you about 10 minutes, then put back and move on the main taks.

TWO things that you have been advised to do, but not yer done are;

1) Clean the engine up of all that crap oil. Give it a good spray of degreaser, than carefully hose off. That will alow clearer inspection of the engine, make it less messy to work on and maybe even allow you to spot culprits.

2) Find the vacuum leak. RJ2000 has said it so many times now he must be hoarse. It is not as difficul or expensive as you might think. Here's a video by Scotty Kilmer using a 99c ciger to ID a vacuum leak. Alternatively, if you don;t want to smoke a cigar you could spend up to $1000 on a smoke tester. Your choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMok2y05jNE
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:26 PM   #283
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Okay, I posted photos and descriptions how to remove the Upper Intake to gain access to the PCV module in two threads on the third page of the thread labeled "3.0 L PCV Valve Help?"



http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=1#post2343500
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:33 PM   #284
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
Well I am old school so I like the paper manuals. Also you only have to pay for them once.
To be clear, the 7 or so books are contained in the binders.
lbraner,

Very good point!
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:35 PM   #285
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj 2000 LS2 View Post
Okay, I posted photos and descriptions how to remove the Upper Intake to gain access to the PCV module in two threads on the third page of the thread labeled "3.0 L PCV Valve Help?"



http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=1#post2343500
Rj,

Can I see a picture of what it looks like after the Upper Intake removed looks like? It's the entire center piece, isn't it?
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Old 04-09-2020, 02:21 PM   #286
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

I might have a picture with the Upper Intake removed. I'll have to find it. I'm not going to take mine apart though! LOL I found two pictures with the Upper Intake off, but the lighting wasn't very good taken inside the garage. I'll add them under the same PCV thread.


If you do the smoke test using a cigar, be sure to have everything connected when you do the test. You might want to put everything back together and do the smoke test before digging deeper in to the PCV module etc...
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:27 PM   #287
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Some snapshots might help. I removed upper intake manifold and runners to replace a worn out thermostat.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=154330

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=154331
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:40 PM   #288
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Thank you all for helping me out on this! My 2001 Saturn L300 3.0L V6 is now running again.

~ Re-installed the MAF sensor using new hoses (tightened both ends real snug)
~ Installed the Fuel Pressure Gauge Shrader Valve Cap
~ Re-installed both Top o2 Sensors

Fired the engine up! To my surprise; it idled and quite well. I did this again 3 times to my shock.

I then stopped and proceeded. I did 3 sets at 30-60 second intervals at first. Then on the 4th run; I gave it just a tiny bit of gas to see how it handled an increase in RPM's and if the idle would catch the drop in RPM's once my foot was released off the pedal. (Which it did) and handled fine.

I recorded a video (I know my videos suck); I attempted fdryer's advise and moved the camera closer to the Tachometer while running this 4 minute video of the car is what sounds like running shape.

I don't dare take it out for a test without first cleaning up the area on the hoses that are oil covered as florida re-suggested, and understand more about where all those connections went and determining if oil sludge are in those inter-connecting parts.

2001 Saturn L300 - Been troubleshooting with saturnfans.com - Running!

Video link
https://youtu.be/tjyJmkv9aKw
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:50 PM   #289
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Some snapshots might help. I removed upper intake manifold and runners to replace a worn out thermostat.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=154330

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=154331
Thank you fdryer for those snapshots!
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Old 04-09-2020, 04:21 PM   #290
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

There is only 1 service engine light DTC code that continues to throw regardless of erase code attempts.

P0102

I just did another series of turning it over and running it.

This time; the first start and run; the service engine light 100% went off.

Then it came back on after a quick drop in power that felt like a "gurp" or a "gasp"; made a jolt also; then continued to run and idle.

Still runs and still idles. This code continues:

P0102 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit Low
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:09 PM   #291
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

P0102 is a maf sensor error. I don't recall this ever being brought up before (and too many posts to re-read at this point). The maf sensor is the large hard plastic housing between the air filter housing and throttle assembly on the left side of the engie (when looking from the front bumper).

P0102 Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low (Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0102)

This can be as simple as a disconnected maf sensor or as difficult as a broken terminal on the connector or damaged wiring harness. Some images from another place showing the maf sensor and housing; https://www.cadillacforums.com/threa...tozone.180117/.

Below is the actual maf sensor, replaced when necessary.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg m1.jpg (24.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg m2.jpg (28.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg m3.jpg (30.6 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg m4.jpg (28.1 KB, 0 views)
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:16 PM   #292
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
P0102 is a maf sensor error. I don't recall this ever being brought up before (and too many posts to re-read at this point). The maf sensor is the large hard plastic housing between the air filter housing and throttle assembly on the left side of the engie (when looking from the front bumper).

P0102 Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low (Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0102)

This can be as simple as a disconnected maf sensor or as difficult as a broken terminal on the connector or damaged wiring harness. Some images from another place showing the maf sensor and housing; https://www.cadillacforums.com/threa...tozone.180117/.

Below is the actual maf sensor, replaced when necessary.
I guess I shouldn't have left the MAF sensor at the junkyard when I picked and pulled it with the hose assembly.

Well this rules out MAP sensor; I can return that and get the MAF sensor I left perhaps. I might get lucky and it's still there. I left it unhooked and connected with the connector on.

If I bring it back and it doesn't work; then I should cut the wiring harnass and re-wire it my car then I am guessing.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:36 PM   #293
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

The MAF sensor code could also mean the amount of adjustment can not be achieved because of a vacuum leak. The air traveling through the MAF is carefully monitored and if extra air is coming in after the MAF... it's a major problem. The exhaust the O2 sensors are monitoring to determine the best possible burn ratio. If the MAF is under reporting the amount of air IN, the O2 sensors won't report properly. If excess air is entering the system from anywhere i.e. a vacuum leak... the brain box can't adjust enough i.e. the range the engine can compensate is out-of-range hence it tosses a code. I suspect the complete not running situation was the MAF connector was not completely snug.

Definitely making progress. I wouldn't drive it yet. Do the cigar smoke test and see if you can locate a vacuum leak. I'm sitting here thinking of the best location(s) to inject the smoke. Probably the larger hose PCV connection point. Not into the hose, but directly into the intake where the hose connects. Fill the engine with smoke and see were it leaks from. You could leave the larger hose disconnected to see if the entire circuit is open. I firmly believe the small PCV hose on the passenger, opposite the large PCV hose... I bet that hose is completely plugged inside the PCV module. Most are because the PCV is full of junk and the reed valve has likely long failed. That is why all the crap was found in the large PCV hose clear past the plastic PCV bridge and hose between the PCV and the PCV bridge.

After the smoke test you should definitely dig into the PCV to be sure all passage ways are cleaned out. Do the mod on the PCV to help with the back pressure and keep the intake from swallowing gunk.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:11 PM   #294
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

There is also the option of cleaning the MAF sensor. You can by a can of CRC MAF sensor cleaner for under $10. USE ONLY MAF SENSOR CLEANER
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:22 PM   #295
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Wrench Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

CRANKCASE VENTILATION OPEL VECTRA-B

Link: https://opel.7zap.com/en/car/j96/e/10/17-0/

Has the entire exploded view on the Crankcase Ventilation System it seems. All those hoses are presumed to be semi-clogged or sections still all the way/partially clogged. Is there an auto store online that I can type a GM part number and have it find the part?

Thanks! Hope this helps. I believe this is what kept the car from running. If you look at the image; Hose 9 was extremely clogged. I couldn't do a all the way thru cleaning the way I was using the pipe cleaners and bending the L shaped hose to do so. Since I am able to pick #11 #8 #10 #5

Hose #7 is the back one that I tried to salvage I think at the Junkyard. This is the hose that broke. Still can't get a purchase order online with this part #. Discontinued, etc.

Hose #13; I haven't inspected or even realized I should be looking. I will have to see if I see this hose.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:44 PM   #296
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Does anyone know if this version of the GM Service Manual for "2005 L-Series" which has L300. Does this cover the broad year ranges? Where could I find this information pre-purchase? These guides are hard to come by it seems. Ebay and very few ads.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:45 PM   #297
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Thumbs Up Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrbraner View Post
There is also the option of cleaning the MAF sensor. You can by a can of CRC MAF sensor cleaner for under $10. USE ONLY MAF SENSOR CLEANER
lrbraner,

Good to know. I will keep my eyes out for MAF sensor cleaner if the replacement doesn't work!

Thanks!
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:46 PM   #298
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
P0102 is a maf sensor error. I don't recall this ever being brought up before (and too many posts to re-read at this point). The maf sensor is the large hard plastic housing between the air filter housing and throttle assembly on the left side of the engie (when looking from the front bumper).

P0102 Mass Air Flow MAF Circuit Low (Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0102)

This can be as simple as a disconnected maf sensor or as difficult as a broken terminal on the connector or damaged wiring harness. Some images from another place showing the maf sensor and housing; https://www.cadillacforums.com/threa...tozone.180117/.

Below is the actual maf sensor, replaced when necessary.
That's what the MAF sensor looks like inside the black oval black box?

I've noticed most of these sensors are very small indeed!
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:51 PM   #299
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Those Click-R stainless clamps are stainless. They're reusable for life. The only exception is that they're specifically made for one diameter. They might be described as the most expensive hose clamps short of titanium clamps made for very expensive cars like Bugattis or Lamborghinis.

News flash. Bugatti in conjunction with Jacob & Co. debuted their watch; https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberta.../#57d760f41aa4. Undeniably superfluous wrist bling to all but the extremely rich.

Review sample reprints from alldata or Mitchell before subscribing. Electronic libraries eliminate occupying space with hard copies while allowing views on cellphone, pc screen, laptop or big screen tv (when setup correctly). As mentioned, old hard copies may be sold on eBay for much less cost than new but may be higher than one yearly subscription to electronic libraries. Your choice. With electronic libraries, wherever online access is available, you have a manual on a screen without carrying around pounds of paper. My hard copies are in four bound covers, together weighing around 33 lbs. $145 new when I ordered them back in 2005.
Did you buy a 2005 service guide and it covered your 2003?
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Old 04-10-2020, 05:50 AM   #300
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L300 - v6 3.0 Liter - Won't stay running after a breakdown and bad...

I cannot tell you if the '05 manual will give accurate info for your '01. In theory, the engines and xmission are the same but there may be running changes to some things. While any manual is better than none, I'd lean towards alldata or Mitchell as info is specific to year and model plus service bulletins as changes were made. You won't get service bulletins from an old set of manuals. Again, your choice for paper copies or electronic library.

My set of '03 manuals are for my '03 L300 (with errors as I uncovered them over the years).

The small rectangular thingy is the actual mass air flow sensor. It's mounted into the middle of the large round plastic housing with two tamper proof torx screws. The reason for the hard round housing is to ensure a uniform air flow into the maf sensor. Anyone attempting to modify airflow before and after the maf sensor housing usually results in an error code due to disrupted airflow. Disrupt airflow thru the sensor and incorrect signals are sent to the ecm resulting in incorrect fuel mixtures. Airflow is a science unknown to the average diyer.

A center pin prevents using a regular torx bit on it. Special torx bits made for them are available. Some imagination and a good vise grip with sharp edges on each jaw can grab the flat part of the torx screw to loosen it. Once a good bite is able to unscrew it about a full turn, grab it again to remove the screws. These screws are similar to wood screws to bite into soft plastic without stripping threads. Self tapping screws. If you get the whole maf sensor assembly with its housing from those snapshots in the junk yard, fine. Use it as is. The suggestion to clean the maf sensor of any dirt from sitting in the junk yard still applies but maybe not necessary if the engine wasn't stripped of parts before you attacked it.
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