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Old 03-15-2018, 05:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: oil useage

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Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
I spent about $1400 at the machine shop for oversize pistons and machining. No more oil consumption!
doesn't sound so bad as long as it licks the problem. maybe with this setup you don't have to use the expensive synthetic oil anymore....

can't they just use your existing pistons that already fit the engine properly & machine them?
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: oil useage

The cylinders wear over time. You could do that, sure. But I want the car to be good for another 300K. The $1.4K was for a total rebuild. New bearings, timing chain, and so on.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: oil useage

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Originally Posted by saturnsctwo View Post
doesn't sound so bad as long as it licks the problem. maybe with this setup you don't have to use the expensive synthetic oil anymore....

can't they just use your existing pistons that already fit the engine properly & machine them?
Yes. In that video, that I previously posted, the mechanic is reusing his stock pistons.

I just pulled a cylinder head off of a 1.9L DOHC, that had an unknown amount of miles. The car, that it came from, had 211k on its odometer. However, the VINs did not match, indicating the owner of that car had done a swap at some point.

The cylinders still had their cross-hatching, which is from the honing process. Thanks to the steel used in those cylinder sleeves, the rings will disintegrate before wearing out the cylinder, when they start guzzling down oil. You only need to over bore, when there is "ring-ridge" or excessive wear on the cylinders.

Gonna start ripping my stock engine apart, soon, because the VIN on the block MATCHES the VIN of my car(despite having 187k on the odometer). Sp, after I get it properly built, as you can probably guess, it will hopefully find its way back into my car to keep it "numbers-matching".
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:39 AM   #24
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Default Re: oil useage

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Old 03-16-2018, 12:56 PM   #25
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Default Re: oil useage

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Talk to Highmile. He rebuilt his SL1 engine, at like 450,000 miles, and used drilled pistons. He is currently at 650,000+ miles on his SL1. He can tell you mpre about the results of oil consumption and drilled pistons.
Actually the engine in my car was built with .020 oversized pistons that came with a oil return slot. Now at 653k I can go 5k miles and not see any obvious drop on the dip stick.

I have, however, built several Saturn engines with factory pistons and drilled them. Oil consumption on those was and continues to be none as far as you can tell.

Really at 1qt/1800 miles is not considered excessive even by new car standards. You can try the MMO or B-12 soak as it can't hurt anything either way.

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Old 03-16-2018, 01:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: oil useage

Quote:
Actually the engine in my car was built with .020 oversized pistons that came with a oil return slot.
Same for me.
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: oil useage

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i read a lot of people with mixed results doing the mmo soak. what's a b-12 soak? is it something else you pour in the cylinders?
yes, Berryman's Chem-dip B12

I did an MMO soak on both saturns with no change in oil use. The most recent one was a 24-48 hour soak. Folks do the soak, then change the oil and filter (how to library has teh procedure)

I may try b12 eventually.

Did you use a torque wrench and tighten your cam cover bolts in stages? On my '98, I put on 100k miles with no loosening or leaks. Only about 20k put on after I did the gasket for my '02. Clean up the area and see if it is fresh oil or old oil. Might be old oil and you don't actually have a leak.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: oil useage

I haven't added oil to the Saturn in over seven months. Of course, I sold it on 9/30/27.

I told the father/son who purchased it to be sure to keep an eye on the oil - it just depends on your driving habit and old Saturns 'just burn oil'. They kind of looked at me funny. I told the kid to come here and research it himself - he says he has and says he checks it every weekend. Hope he keeps it up.

The new(ish) Mazda? I haven't started checking the oil on it regularly yet (synthetic 0W-30). The few times I have, no issues. Nice not to have this 'minor' issue. Heck, even the Saturn didn't start burning oil until some time AFTER it hit 100K on the odo.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: oil useage

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Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
yes, Berryman's Chem-dip B12

I did an MMO soak on both saturns with no change in oil use. The most recent one was a 24-48 hour soak. Folks do the soak, then change the oil and filter (how to library has teh procedure)

I may try b12 eventually.

Did you use a torque wrench and tighten your cam cover bolts in stages? On my '98, I put on 100k miles with no loosening or leaks. Only about 20k put on after I did the gasket for my '02. Clean up the area and see if it is fresh oil or old oil. Might be old oil and you don't actually have a leak.
I tightened the bolts by the book in sequence. just thought I would check each bolt now to see of some got loose. gently trying to turn each bolt & see. ya I'm not even sure if it is a leak as of yet. what's the purpose of putting mmo in the oil & fuel? does that have any effect on oil control ring sludge?
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:49 AM   #30
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Default Re: oil useage

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Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
I spent about $1400 at the machine shop for oversize pistons and machining. No more oil consumption!
So if you spend approximately what the entire car is worth, you can solve the problem.

I kinda like the procedure recently posted by another member where they manually forced B-12 chemtool solution through the rings. Apparently, that worked reasonably well.

Best,
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:22 PM   #31
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Default Re: oil useage

Quote:
So if you spend approximately what the entire car is worth, you can solve the problem.
Exactly! But I expect I'll get my $1400 worth out of it, with no more futzing about for a decade. Plus when you add in the benefits of doing the project with my son it was worth every penny.

I recognize that folks swear by the piston soak, but I have a hard time seeing how you are going to flush the gunk out of that oil ring groove. Maybe if you had a drain slot there...
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: oil useage

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So if you spend approximately what the entire car is worth, you can solve the problem.

I kinda like the procedure recently posted by another member where they manually forced B-12 chemtool solution through the rings. Apparently, that worked reasonably well.

Best,
You go right ahead a FORCE liquids through the rings of your engine. My grandpa and uncles will gladly sell you a used engine, to replace the blown engine that results from doing that too often.

There is a reason, that the rings seal the cylinder and should not have anything forced through them.

Considering most rebuilt engines still have cross-hatching on the cylinder liner, it is easy to see that the rings disintegrate after too much abuse, as opposed to causing excessive wear on the cylinders.

The rings are the weak spot.

Forcing anything past them makes them weaker, over time.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: oil useage

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Exactly! But I expect I'll get my $1400 worth out of it, with no more futzing about for a decade. Plus when you add in the benefits of doing the project with my son it was worth every penny.

I recognize that folks swear by the piston soak, but I have a hard time seeing how you are going to flush the gunk out of that oil ring groove. Maybe if you had a drain slot there...
all the soak probably does is soften some of the carbon sludge & allow them to seal a little better, then the crap just comes back in a short time. the only way is to go with the drilled pistons.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:12 PM   #34
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Default Re: oil useage

I see some people on youtube pouring the mmo in the crankcase & fuel tank. does this have any effect on the ring sludge that way? can't imagine it does..... if so I would do it before every oil change...
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: oil useage

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all the soak probably does is soften some of the carbon sludge & allow them to seal a little better, then the crap just comes back in a short time. the only way is to go with the drilled pistons.
I believe some have reported very long term benefits from b-12. If it took 170,000 miles to carb up the first time there is no reason it would return much faster.

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Old 03-18-2018, 11:54 PM   #36
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I believe some have reported very long term benefits from b-12. If it took 170,000 miles to carb up the first time there is no reason it would return much faster.

-Robert
is this b-12 stuff something new? for years all I heard of is the mmo soak.
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:10 AM   #37
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Default Re: oil useage

The MMO is petroleum-based, and has peppermint oil(among a few other types of lubricants in it), which allows it to provide a small amount of lubrication and is not as effective at breaking up sludge and grime.

I cleaned my piston faces, on my junkyard engine, with a Scotch-Brite pad after soaking the pistons for 24 hours. I have clean, metal on all four piston tops. It does break up light carbon deposits, without running a risk of damaging the bearings/metal surfaces inside the crankcase.

The Berryman's B12 Chem-Dip is a solvent-based fuel system treatment, that(like Dexron-III ATF) has proven to have an unorthodox use for cleaning the rings and freeing up deposits in the ring groove. Since it is a solvent-based additive, you will want to change your oil IMMEDIATELY after using it to soak your pistons with it. It works more effectively than the MMO, because it has little to no petroleum-based oils(or ANY oils in it) at all.

Both processes are a "Band-Aid on a Bullet Wound" scenario. I have done Sea Foam on my stock engine(that was recently pulled for a burnt valve and replaced). I did MMO on the replacement engine. Both of them still burn oil(the replacement engine burns it much slower than the stock engine did)

Drilling the stock pistons or buying the correctly-designed pistons from Sealed Power, because they come with machined drain back holes in them already, is the ONLY PERMANENT FIX.
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Old 03-21-2018, 02:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: oil useage

My Saturn SL2 is a 1996 station car with 115,000 miles. I can buy a lot of oil for 1400. I add a quart every 2 fill ups and keeps rolling along. The car still gets 35 + on the highway . So I'm happy about that.

PS I had a Chevy vega in the late 70's and used much more oil then my trusty Saturn.

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Old 03-21-2018, 04:51 PM   #39
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Default Re: oil useage

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My Saturn SL2 is a 1996 station car with 115,000 miles. I can buy a lot of oil for 1400. I add a quart every 2 fill ups and keeps rolling along. The car still gets 35 + on the highway . So I'm happy about that.

PS I had a Chevy vega in the late 70's and used much more oil then my trusty Saturn.

Thanks
Tom
That's because the Chevy Vega 2.3L engine did not have hardened steel cylinder liners, and the steel rings would overbore the aluminum block.

The automatic transmission, in the Saturn S-Series has the same problem with its valve body bores, causing gear slams.
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