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Old 03-24-2015, 07:56 AM   #1
eljefino
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Default brake backing plates unobtanium

Hey peeps, I'm back!

Just a PSA, drum backing plates aren't being stamped out anymore, and you can't get them through GM.

-- the new owner of a 97 SW2 with crumbling rust back there.

Incidentally it's amazing how rusty brake lines turn into a mess you can't bleed that turn into all new rear axle stuff. For want of a nail, the horseshoe...
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Old 03-24-2015, 08:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

I'm sorry- but only part of this post made any sense... can you clarify?

I am not getting the nail and horseshoe references....

Sorry...
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Backing plates and disk brake back dust shields have to be extracted from the JY. Cleaning and painting with POR-15 will save a good one though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Want_of_a_Nail
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

A yard here wants $70 a side. I'll naturally be buying another $300 saturn.
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2NDSOUT View Post
I'm sorry- but only part of this post made any sense... can you clarify?

I am not getting the nail and horseshoe references....

Sorry...
Substitute, brake backing plates, brake lines and other Saturn parts into the proverb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Want_of_a_Nail

"
For want of a nail the shoe was lost,
for want of a shoe the horse was lost;
and for want of a horse the rider was lost;
being overtaken and slain by the enemy,
all for want of care about a horse-shoe nail.
-Benjamin Franklin
The Way to Wealth (1758)[3]
Variation

A little neglect may breed mischief ...
for want of a nail, the shoe was lost;
for want of a shoe the horse was lost;
and for want of a horse the rider was lost.
-Benjamin Franklin
Poor Richard's Almanac, preface (1758)
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

A thread like this makes me sad. Saturns in yards out here (Calif) get picked apart bit-by-bit until the "cash-flow" from them is too low to justify the space they take up in the yard; then they are sent off for crushing with all the good (non-rusted!) stuff still there. I was especially vexed when I went to get an aluminum DOHC valve cover, I knew that engine, once the cams and such were exposed, was destined to be scrapped. Are there no yards yet dedicated to S-series, where this stuff can be saved when we have to put one out of service?
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Old 04-01-2018, 03:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

I'm worried about this situation too. Mine are starting to rot away and I haven't been able to source any new, or non-rotten, used ones. I may end up having to piece together and weld up some old ones!! Any suggestions?? James.
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Old 04-01-2018, 04:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
... Are there no yards yet dedicated to S-series, where this stuff can be saved when we have to put one out of service?
There are a couple that specialize. There is one in western PA and this one:
Payless Saturn Auto Salvage
20849 F. Road
Soldier, KS 66540
1-785-924-3600

Do not e-mail junk yards, just call.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
There are a couple that specialize. There is one in western PA and this one:
Payless Saturn Auto Salvage
20849 F. Road
Soldier, KS 66540
1-785-924-3600

Do not e-mail junk yards, just call.
Where's the western PA one???
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Old 04-01-2018, 10:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69javman View Post
I'm worried about this situation too. Mine are starting to rot away and I haven't been able to source any new, or non-rotten, used ones. I may end up having to piece together and weld up some old ones!! Any suggestions?? James.
And this is why I have 5 haha. 2 of them are parts cars. I remember seems like just a couple years ago these cars were everywhere. You could go into any jy and find at least 15, and they were all over Craigslist for 5-700. Now it seems so much harder to find a decent one and when you do it's not cheap. (Comparatively speaking, I know these are all cheap cars)
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Sounds like we should see if Colonelhogan is able to machine these, like he did those 1994 Calif. Emission EGR adapter plates.

Until that time, www.car-part.com for sourcing used parts.

And for machinists that wish to replicate: www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com will have the parts diagrams from GM.

Patent Licenses are only valid for 14 years. All Saturn S-Series patents would have expired in 2005(unless renewed by GM for applicable fees) for the oldest S-Series & have expired in 2016 for the last model year of the S-Series.

Meaning the part designs are now "public" information and anyone is allowed to legally manufacture duplicate parts.

Considering how many parts are "NLA", and the ones that are still available are likely just old inventory being bled off from dealership shelves, I would speculate that patents are expired.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

I think the justification for the $70- price, was the labor to remove the drums, then (i guess) unbolt wheel-cylinder & stub-axle... finally grab the backing plates. I think the entire rear axles can be had for 100-$150.

There are plenty cars left, with little rust... the problem is who pulls brake back plates before scrapping the car. Car-part lists rear axles, but not back plates.

And most of the back plates north of CT are rusting!
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgg17 View Post
Where's the western PA one???
East of Harrisburg and I do not have the name. Ask around in the area as someone will know. Or stop buy some of the larger yards as the junk business is a close club.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Buy the entire rear assembly from a rust fre car as you will end up using all of it eventually.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
East of Harrisburg and I do not have the name. Ask around in the area as someone will know. Or stop buy some of the larger yards as the junk business is a close club.
Sounds close to me, I am on the east side. Maybe this weekend I'll do some digging.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:46 AM   #16
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

#s 18014164 & 18014165 ought to be darn close to direct swap...not that it's any easier to find but it opens up a heck of a lot ore JY search options...
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

If the mounting bolt holes from the Cavalier backing plate match the Saturns and the wheel lug bolt spacing is the same so as to mount the drum, then that Cavalier assembly might be a nice upgrade for a Saturn S. I'm betting the Cavalier has a bigger diameter drum. If not, then maybe a Malibu or Grand AM backing plate might hold larger diameter parts?

And if you need backing plates for a DISK BRAKE, then just leave them out and put the car back together without them. They're only there to prevent water puddles splashing on the rotors. And if you're driving the car, the pads will wipe the rotor clean anyway, and heat from applying the brakes will dry the rotors. I "had" crappy backing plates on my first SL2 that rusted and kept touching the rotor causing one heck of a squeal. So, I took tin snips and cut them out of the car! No squeal and no problem! Drove it for 2 years after that, and sold it to the Pizza delivery boy.

Last edited by PrestonIII; 04-05-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 04-05-2018, 03:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Sounds like we should see if Colonelhogan is able to machine these, like he did those 1994 Calif. Emission EGR adapter plates.

Until that time, www.car-part.com for sourcing used parts.

And for machinists that wish to replicate: www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com will have the parts diagrams from GM.

Patent Licenses are only valid for 14 years. All Saturn S-Series patents would have expired in 2005(unless renewed by GM for applicable fees) for the oldest S-Series & have expired in 2016 for the last model year of the S-Series.

Meaning the part designs are now "public" information and anyone is allowed to legally manufacture duplicate parts.

Considering how many parts are "NLA", and the ones that are still available are likely just old inventory being bled off from dealership shelves, I would speculate that patents are expired.
Patents don't really have any bearing to non-patented items like a brake backing plate

These are a sheet metal part -- which can be a bit difficult to replicate without specialized dies. Now, if we could just get a full set of original production blueprints we could really do some work...
...
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:18 AM   #19
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

I was having a problem finding L series backing plates. It's nice to think of omitting them on Disc brakes. Kinda need them on drums.
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: brake backing plates unobtanium

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelhogan44 View Post
Patents don't really have any bearing to non-patented items like a brake backing plate

These are a sheet metal part -- which can be a bit difficult to replicate without specialized dies. Now, if we could just get a full set of original production blueprints we could really do some work...
If we find a pair of good ones, now it's possible to 3D scan them and get an accurate map of the shape. Then drawings can be easily made.

Anyone got any good ones? Mine are pretty rough.
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