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Old 02-22-2019, 10:33 PM   #1
joeg154
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Default 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

We have a 2007 Saturn Vue with the 2.2l and it is currently not wanting to start. The engine was recently rebuilt with a new cylinder head, pistons and rings due to a timing chain failure. It was running fine then it started acting up where it would start and idle for a few then die. At one point it did show an engine stall code though this most recent time it does not. We have tried replacing spark plugs, coils, ICM, crank position sensor, and starter. I have found some conflicting information regarding fuel pressure for the 07 2.2l, the Hayes manual lists it as 48-60 at the rail however I have found some posts on here that list it as 56-62 at the rail and 50 while running. I am not entirely sure if those numbers are specific to a different engine from the 2.2l. When I last checked the pressure at the rail it was at about 52-53 psi, not while cranking. And when it was running last time it was at around 60 (I wasn't there at the time it was checked so can't confirm 100% what it was). It now wont start at all and has been about a week since it died. I am leaning towards a fuel issue or a spark issue but we are at a loss as to what to check next. Any ideas or info would be greatly appreciated as its been a great car when its been running.

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Old 02-23-2019, 01:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Any of those fuel pressures will support engine run.

I've read of flaky wiring between ECM and under hood fuse block (UHFB).

One way to check for bad Main Relay Control wire is to remove ENG MAIN RLY and put a jumper wire (paper clip) between sockets mating with relay contacts 30 and 87.

If engine starts and runs you can route new wire from ECM to Main Relay.

Repost if you'd like some tech data to support running new wire.

BTW ... you can find more info in following thread and there's also useful diagram in post # 21.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/att...7&d=1423075742

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Old 02-23-2019, 05:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeg154 View Post
. The engine was recently rebuilt with a new cylinder head, pistons and rings due to a timing chain failure.
I didn't realize there was still problems with timing chains on the newer vues with the 2.2. How many miles when it failed? What kind of failure, chain break, stretch, jump time, tensioner problem?

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Old 03-09-2019, 11:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Sorry for not responding sooner, my dad was trying some things to get it running and didn't want to interfere with his attempts.

I did try jumping the two pins as you said far2grumpy and got the same result. The car cranked but never fired. What is odd is when the BCM is reset by a scanner it starts fine for a couple days then goes back into this. When it was first reset its active code was a generator over voltage I believe. However once it was running we checked it and it seemed fine at idle anyways. Any other ideas?

Bruce Rock, its not my car so I don't remember the specific mileage but it was somewhere around 190,000 I believe (I can double check with my sister since she knows what it was). When we tore into it it appeared to be either the front plastic guide shattering or the tensioner collapsing. Its hard to tell which caused what but I would lean more towards the plastic guide being the initial cause and the tensioner was just a victim.

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Old 03-09-2019, 03:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeg154 View Post
The car cranked but never fired. What is odd is when the BCM is reset by a scanner it starts fine for a couple days then goes back into this. When it was first reset its active code was a generator over voltage I believe. However once it was running we checked it and it seemed fine at idle anyways. Any other ideas?
Its not clear to me how you reset BCM using scanner but whatever you're doing sounds like problem is being cured - momentarily at least.

You may have a PASSLOCK issue where voltage being sent to BCM when key is turned to start is on margin of value expected by BCM. So, if BCM don't recognize the voltage it won't send fuel enable password to ECM.

Two clues for incorrect voltage being sent to BCM are security light will be flashing and engine usually starts - or tries to start just a bit - less than a second.

A blinking SECURITY light indicates the BCM has entered TAMPER mode. As previously stated - this happens when BCM fails to recognize the Passlock voltage provided by ignition sensor when key was turned to CRANK.

Perform these steps:

30-Minute Learn Procedure
1. Turn ignition key to ON (not START) - with engine OFF.

2. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON, vehicle will not start.

3. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.

4. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.

5. Repeat steps 1-4 two more times for a total of 3 cycles/30 minutes. The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlockô Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.

Important: The vehicle learns the Passlockô Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.

6. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlockô Sensor Data Code and/or password.

7. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.

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Old 03-09-2019, 04:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

I wasn't around at the time it was being reset. My uncle has a Snap On scanner that he brought over and cleared all the codes I assume which let it start. We don't have easy access to it to see if there are any codes again as my dad's older one isn't up-to-date enough to grab most codes.

As for the Passlock, the light hasn't come on other than when we replaced the BCM and had to relearn it. That was my initial thought when it started happening though and made sure the security light never flashed. It doesn't even attempt to start for a moment like a normal Passlock tamper mode. It also has fuel at the rail the entire crank time and the plugs are wet so it seems the injectors are working as well. The entire thing is very perplexing to say the least.

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Old 03-09-2019, 07:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeg154 View Post
I wasn't around at the time it was being reset. My uncle has a Snap On scanner that he brought over and cleared all the codes I assume which let it start. We don't have easy access to it to see if there are any codes again as my dad's older one isn't up-to-date enough to grab most codes.

As for the Passlock, the light hasn't come on other than when we replaced the BCM and had to relearn it. That was my initial thought when it started happening though and made sure the security light never flashed. It doesn't even attempt to start for a moment like a normal Passlock tamper mode. It also has fuel at the rail the entire crank time and the plugs are wet so it seems the injectors are working as well. The entire thing is very perplexing to say the least.
I have no 2.2 hands-on experience.

There are several members with impressive 2.2 experience - waiter21 comes to mind.

In the meantime I've attached FSM extract addressing crank but no start.

It mentions several special tools but most can be substituted for if you have time and energy to work with the Vue.

Let me know if you'd like to see illustrations for any of the tools or if procedures call for other steps which you'd to see.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 07 Vue - 2.2 Cranks - No Start.pdf (22.3 KB, 12 views)

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Old 03-20-2019, 06:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

I was just able to pull 3 codes off the Vue. Could you provide any troubleshooting pages that cover the below codes far2grumpy? I believe I know what the 3 codes are as Torque Pro does provide a basic amount of info but the troubleshooting steps may lead me to the root cause in case it's not simply a faulty part/sensor. There may be more codes that Torque Pro isn't getting however hopefully it's a good start.
  • p1682
  • p0116
  • p2019

I believe the p1682 is likely because my dad just replaced the ignition lock cylinder and key ignition lock housing which required a relearn, but it is cranking just not firing and there is no security light still. The second one says its a coolant temp sensor range/performance problem but its new (though wouldn't surprise me if we got a dud/incompatible one). And the last seems to be a throttle body code which would explain the stall code I had gotten a while ago if it wasn't opening enough. We have battled the TB on the car a couple times for some reason so that's not a surprising code.

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Old 03-21-2019, 07:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

I've attached a few extracts.

P1682 could be a factor for crank but no run.

P0116 is listed for 2.4 and 3.5 but not for 2.2 engine - I attached anyway

Po118 attached in case you also wanted

P2019 is not listed so I substituted P2119

Repost or send PM if you determine P0116 and P2019 are valid and do same if any of attachments refer to documents you'd like to see.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf P0116.pdf (28.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: pdf P0118.pdf (28.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: pdf P1682.pdf (21.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: pdf P2119.pdf (20.5 KB, 3 views)

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Old 03-24-2019, 01:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Nevermind, forgot you had posted the diagram earlier with the ignition voltages.

Awesome, thank you for the documents. I just started going through the 1682 as that is the most likely cause of this issue. I got to step 6 where I have to check for a short to ground for both ETC ignition circuits. I assume as I have to disconnect the ECM that I will be probing the ECM connectors. Do you know which pins I should check for the short at the ECM connectors? Don't want to go poking things I shouldn't on those connectors

Last edited by joeg154; 03-24-2019 at 01:58 PM..

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Old 03-24-2019, 07:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

These steps check wiring connected to ECM - not internal ECM.

You want to make sure voltages are getting to ECM - the procedures ask you to check for shorts and opens.

However, if you have test light or voltmeter I'd check for voltages at points listed below.

See attached thumbnail - do these steps:

battery installed
key to RUN
Eng Main Rly removed and jumper between pins 30 and 87

Check for 12 volts at:

C1-19 and 20

C2-63 and 64
Attached Images
File Type: jpg screen_2019-03-24 18.02.31.jpg (100.2 KB, 8 views)

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Old 09-26-2019, 07:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: 07 Saturn Vue Not Starting

Sorry that its been so long since my last post/update. Managed to get it running on September 13th, finally. Turned out to be some grease in the plug between the coil pack and ICM, specifically the coil pack and a little jumper like plug that goes between it and the ICM. However, its now got a misfire for some reason. It isn't always present, and initially it started out as just occurring when it was started and only happened twice per startup (according to the scan tool I have). Replaced the coil pack and ICM just in-case any of the grease caused any internal damage to the coil pack or ICM's internal circuitry. Also just replaced the spark plugs tonight with pre-gapped NGK Iridium IX. It is still misfiring when starting (most of the time) and now there are times where it will start and after warming up a bit will start to misfire. It is almost always on cylinder 2 according to the scan tool. Attached is a graph of the misfire, sorry for the weirdly formatted graph its how the scan tool generates it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf graph.pdf (108.8 KB, 1 views)

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