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Old 05-07-2008, 12:01 AM   #1
mjandaya
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Default What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

I was looking around for a BI XENON HID KIT for the Saturn Astra and I don't see anything for 9005 type of bulbs.

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Old 04-25-2009, 11:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

I was confused at first too. You don't need the bi kit. Our headlights only have one bulb for hi and low. There is a moving part in the head light that changes the direction of the light. You can see for yourself if you put your ear to the light while someone flashes the lights from low to high. Thats why you can't find a bi kit for that bulb type. Need any other help pm me

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Old 04-25-2009, 11:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjandaya View Post
I was looking around for a BI XENON HID KIT for the Saturn Astra and I don't see anything for 9005 type of bulbs.
u can buy Xenon bulbs that are just replacements, i did that for my SL2 and a huge difference and their not expensive.

...
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Bought 92 Olds 88 Royale LS - 3800 V6

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Old 09-17-2009, 03:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

What is the highest intensity I can put in without risking the bulb to melt my car flat? I saw some 30 000K out there......... I'm guessing that will melt my lens and everything around? My brother has a Protege5 and installed some 13 000K in there, and they don't seem to heat up too much. Any advice?

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Old 09-17-2009, 08:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Those "k" numbers you are referring to have nothing to do with heat. They refer to the color temp on the kelvin scale. It's a lengthy explanation on how the color temp number relates to the color, so I won't go into that. The important thing to know is that the higher the color temp the less light actually hits the road. Example: 4300k or 5000k is pretty close to white light and throws more light compared to 6000k or 8000k which is more blue but produces less light. I have 6000k which has a tint of blue in it but is still very bright. It's up to you what you get....i like 6000k because it's a nice balance of good visibility and nice color. So get what ever you like.....nothing should melt!

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Old 09-17-2009, 10:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
What is the highest intensity I can put in without risking the bulb to melt my car flat? I saw some 30 000K out there......... I'm guessing that will melt my lens and everything around? My brother has a Protege5 and installed some 13 000K in there, and they don't seem to heat up too much. Any advice?
I'm actually a little surprised by this comment, since most websites out there that sell aftermarket HID kits make it a point right off the bat to explain what colour temperature actually is. 13,000K is utterly stupid for a street car, not to mention highly illegal (actually, ALL aftermarket HID kits are illegal, but a 13,000K kit draws a lot more attention on the streets -- both good and bad -- than a 4300/5000/6000K kit). 13,000K is close to what a black light produces! A 13,000K kit probably puts out maybe 100% more visible light than the stock halogens do, but with much added eye strain. They are meant for show cars only. 4300/5000/6000K kits, OTOH, produce around 300% (+/- 20%) as much light.

I guess the first question to ask is: are you talking about real HID bulbs, or those fake "HID look-a-like" bulbs? Installing real HIDs in our Astras is much more complicated than your friend's Mazda, since our cars have CAN-bus, a bulb-out warning system, and also use the main headlights as daytime running lights. It can be done. Rondosa wrote an excellent article here that most of us have followed. But if you are just talking about aftermarket halogen bulbs that give you that "HID look", then it's a simple swap.

If you want genuine HIDs that produce the most lumens (ie: the most light), go with a 4300K kit. FWIW, 95% of the OEM HIDs on the roads are 41-4300K. The higher up in colour temp you go, the bluer (and eventually, the purpler) the colour becomes and the less lumens you get. The higher temp kits also produce more eye strain because of the way our eyes handle blue light, but you should know that the stock halogen headlights of our Astras still appear slightly bluish from certain angles because of the optics in our projector headlights. I'm running a 5000K kit and the horizontal cut-off has a very obvious blue band between light and dark, and it is this thin band of light that makes you think "blue" when you are the other guy coming towards me. The higher the temperature, the less pronounced the band.

...
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

I was gonna write a life's-story-long-kind-of-post, but here it is nice and short. Thanks for the explanations on the color heat! and yes, I mean the real HID kits, not the "Silverstar" stuff or other blue-painted halogens.
I want optimal light output, but I don't want the yellow tinge of halogens... so I think I'll go with 6000K. And I read Rondosa' tutorial.... Awesome.
As for the DRLs/High-beams, that's the reason I inquired about bi-xenons... Unless I was mis-informed, they are supposed to behave like the stock headlamps?

...
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"I have four rules in the Astra. No food, no drink, no smoking, and no vomit. Got it? Now... let me just put my coffee in the cup holder..."

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Old 09-19-2009, 01:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
I was gonna write a life's-story-long-kind-of-post, but here it is nice and short. Thanks for the explanations on the color heat! and yes, I mean the real HID kits, not the "Silverstar" stuff or other blue-painted halogens.
I want optimal light output, but I don't want the yellow tinge of halogens... so I think I'll go with 6000K. And I read Rondosa' tutorial.... Awesome.
As for the DRLs/High-beams, that's the reason I inquired about bi-xenons... Unless I was mis-informed, they are supposed to behave like the stock headlamps?
I agree with Rondosa that 6000K is about as "hot" as you want to go for street use, but considering that all factory HIDs that roll off the showroom are running 41-4300K (not just for max lumens, but for minimum eye strain), I felt that 5000K was a good intermediate. But to each his own, and a lot of retailers don't offer the 5000K kits (they go straight from 4300K to 6000K). Mine are 5000K and the street, curbs, etc. are "white", while the cut-off is a distinct "blue". I'm 99% confident that I probably would have been just as satisfied if I had chosen OEM 4300K instead. It is amazing how much of the "blue flicker" actually depends on the optics inside the housings. IMHO, our optics are pretty decent -- not "E55 decent" like in Wiedemann's pic, but I didn't have $100,000+ to spend on a car.

As for "bi-xenons", you have to be careful with this phrase on-line. OEM bi-xenons (or bi-halogens) are projector lens assemblies that utilize a movable shield inside. Our Astras have these (ie: bi-halogens). The shield remains in the vertical position when operating on low-beam (effectively blocking light above the cut-off so as not to blind oncoming drivers) and drops down out of the way when in hi-beam mode. The change is virtually instantaneous, which can really get the attention of other drivers when you "flash to pass". The so-called HID bi-xenon kits are crap. They use bulbs that incorporate the standard HID capsule, along side a traditional incandescent filament positioned off-axis. If you ever see one of these bulbs it looks like something cobbled together in Dr. Frankenstein's lab. Not a single car manufacturer uses this design, and for good reason.

Whatever colour temp you end up using, all you need to know is that you need a regular 9005 HID bulb kit. For our cars, you will also need a pair of load resistors (Rondosa used 6 ohm ones, but some people have said that they didn't work for them and opted for 3 ohm ones instead) and a standard relay harness (not the bi-xenon one). The resistors are necessary to trick the CAN-bus system into thinking that you still have 65W halogens, instead of HIDs (which draw considerably more than 65W to fire up, but only 35W to run once warmed up -- two conditions where the CAN-bus will say WTF? and kill power to the circuit entirely). The relay harness is required because of our cars' DRLs. Daytime Running Lights typically operate at a reduced power when active, and this reduced voltage being fed through the factory wiring harness to the ballasts isn't enough to make them fire up (which again will make CAN-bus kill power). This reduced voltage will trip the relay in the relay harness, however, allowing the harness to then feed full power from the battery. So instead of halogen DRLs that run at maybe 50-60% brightness during the daytime, you will end up with HID DRLs that run at 100% brightness -- day or night.

...
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Okay. So if I understand properly, it is the actual harness that conrol the voltage, and not the the CAN-bus? So by replacing the stock harness with the HID harness, it by-passes the half-voltage function?
One cool thing that my brother's HIDs do (although very bad for the ballasts) is, on half voltage, they become strobes so when he flashes his "high beams", they strobe!!

As for the color, I'll be looking at different ones to see which one pleases me best.

...
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by afk123 View Post
I was confused at first too. You don't need the bi kit. Our headlights only have one bulb for hi and low. There is a moving part in the head light that changes the direction of the light. You can see for yourself if you put your ear to the light while someone flashes the lights from low to high. Thats why you can't find a bi kit for that bulb type. Need any other help pm me
If you want both the low and high beam, yes you want a bi xenon kit. The HID kit will do the same thing as the stock lights on the Astra when going from low to high.


I don't see what is so hard about finding 9005 bi xenons, there's tons of results on google

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Old 09-19-2009, 06:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by s-seriesguy View Post
If you want both the low and high beam, yes you want a bi xenon kit. The HID kit will do the same thing as the stock lights on the Astra when going from low to high.


I don't see what is so hard about finding 9005 bi xenons, there's tons of results on google
I dont know if some of you aren't reading the above posts, but Bi-xenon is not needed for the Astra because the Hi/low beam is from the same single bulb but our headlight housings have a shutter inside which actuates the hi/low function.
When you remove the stock halogen bulb you are not also removing the shutter, it remains in the housing.

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Old 09-20-2009, 12:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
Okay. So if I understand properly, it is the actual harness that conrol the voltage, and not the the CAN-bus? So by replacing the stock harness with the HID harness, it by-passes the half-voltage function?
Yes... sorta.

CAN-bus isn't really a centralized brain that controls every aspect on the car. It is actually a network of smaller, more specific modules (CAN stands for Controlled Area Network). Older cars featured one or two dedicated computers that controlled mostly everything, where as CAN-bus cars use literally dozens of dumber, more specific modules that each control very specific parts of the car and communicate with each other over this network (eg: steering wheel control module, rain sensing wiper control module, etc.). So it isn't really CAN-bus or the harness of the car that controls the voltage, but more than likely some sort of dedicated headlight module. But that's probably more than you needed to know.

The following example contains voltage values that may or may not be accurate!

This so-called headlight module works by sending a command to supply 12V to the headlight bulbs when the headlight switch is "on" (or if the switch is set to "Auto" and the light sensor detects insufficient light). When operating in DRL mode (eg: on a sunny day during the daytime), the supply is reduced to something like 8V. This power all comes from the car's wiring harness that plugs directly into the back of each headlight assembly. If you were to install HIDs by themselves and try to operate them during the daylight (ie: in DRL mode), the headlights will try to fire up but then immediately go out. HIDs require a lot more power than halogen bulbs during initial start-up and the headlight module interprets this as if somethings wrong and immediately kills power. How it does this I do not know, but there's probably circuitry involved that is monitoring how much current is being drawn by the headlight wiring and kills power if it is too high.

The relay harness that I mentioned doesn't replace anything. Without jumping into Photoshop and drawing you a picture, the factory wiring harness has plugs that plug into the back of your car's headlight assemblies. This relay harness that I mention fits in between the factory plugs and the headlight assemblies, and then tee's off to get its power directly from the battery of the car. The relay in the harness will still work at 8V, so it will still trigger when the headlight module is operating in DRL mode. But since the harness is wired directly to the battery, the moment the relay is triggered, the ballasts are receiving a full 12V. So whether or not the headlights are operating in DRL mode, the ballasts will be getting 12V of clean power via a dedicated wire run directly to the battery. This dedicated wire is not monitored by any sort of CAN-bus module, so there's nothing to interfere with the flow of power. It even has its own dedicated fuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
One cool thing that my brother's HIDs do (although very bad for the ballasts) is, on half voltage, they become strobes so when he flashes his "high beams", they strobe!!
Good to know that you know. Pulsing power to HID ballasts -- especially when they are already warmed up -- is very bad for them. Our cars feature bi-halogen headlight assemblies so when we flash our high beams (whether we have halogens or HIDs), the area above our cars' cut-off is immediately filled with bright light. Cars that don't feature bi-xenon headlights almost always have regular halogen high beams, since HIDs take about 30 seconds to reach full intensity.

What does your brother do if he needs his high beams on "full time"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
As for the color, I'll be looking at different ones to see which one pleases me best.
Which brings me to a nice pic I found on-line somewhere when I was trying to decide what colour temp to go with. Try not to focus on the point source of the bulb, but on the overall colour of each cubbyhole. You'll note the obvious shift towards blue above 5000K, but what you may not immediately notice is the reduced amount of light cast on the inside of each cubbyhole. Photography of this type is tricky in any sense, but at least this pic tries to put all of the various colour temps in a single pic (individual pics are almost always doctored).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HID Color Comparison (35W and 55W).jpg (100.9 KB, 20 views)

...
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:17 AM   #13
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by outtafocus View Post
I dont know if some of you aren't reading the above posts, but Bi-xenon is not needed for the Astra because the Hi/low beam is from the same single bulb but our headlight housings have a shutter inside which actuates the hi/low function.
When you remove the stock halogen bulb you are not also removing the shutter, it remains in the housing.
What outtafocus said. Our cars came from the factory with bi-halogen projector headlight assemblies.

Think about it. The stock 9005 bulb has only one filament. Why would you need to install any dual filament HID Frankenstein monstrosity in an assembly that was intended for only a single filament application?

...
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Alright, thanks for the replies!

My brother has his HIDs on all the time. Low beam, high beam, DRL, all of it. they are well aimed, so they are not blinding to oncoming drivers, and are powerful enough to see everything the road offers him.

I knew that there was a flapper inside the headlight assembly for hi/low... noticed that the first time I drove at night. I just didnt make the connection between that and the fact we have monofilament bulbs

Thanks everyone for the explanations. you are all very helpful (and patient) with n00bs!! Once the money starts entering my account faster than it is at the moment, I'll start modding. Might even do a photoshoot with my dad's 8.0 megapixel SLR once I am pleased with the mods I will have done.

...
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:32 AM   #15
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Has any one tried HID fog lights? I havent really seen any one on here with them.

I wonder if the fogs need to be Canbus compatible also?

I would perfer fogs to match the headlights colour wise.

Astra La Vista! I thought I remembered seeing a picture of your car having different fog light bulbs, was that correct?

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Old 09-20-2009, 11:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Astra La Vista! I just found the pic of your car in your puddle light thread.
Love the amber parking lights, I prefer that look over the all white look.

Very nice.

I am not going to do LEDs right away, but I may go pick up a set of regular 3157 amber bulbs today.

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Old 09-20-2009, 02:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by outtafocus View Post
Has any one tried HID fog lights? I havent really seen any one on here with them.

I wonder if the fogs need to be Canbus compatible also?

I would perfer fogs to match the headlights colour wise.

Astra La Vista! I thought I remembered seeing a picture of your car having different fog light bulbs, was that correct?
The fogs are independant of the Can-Bus system and thus are not affected by it. Makes for a much easier HID install in your fogs

...
~Christina~
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

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Has any one tried HID fog lights? I havent really seen any one on here with them.
For the same reason I don't like aftermarket HIDs mounted in regular reflector headlight assemblies, I wouldn't recommend installing them in our reflector foglight assemblies (exception: aftermarket HID kits that offer D#R bulbs). Most HID kits installed in reflector assemblies cause a severe amount of glare to both the driver and oncoming traffic. Our fog assemblies are meant for H10/9145 bulbs that have a capped end to control glare, where as no aftermarket HID bulb on the market is designed this way. If you were to install HID bulbs (or modified 9005 bulbs as some people have tried -- including myself), the light escaping through the tip of the bulb where the cap should be is allowed to radiate outward beyond the normally limited area the fog lights are intended to cast their light. So although either solution does produce more light output overall, much of it ends up going where it either doesn't do you any good, or negatively affects your vision and that of other drivers.

If our cars were equipped with projector-style factory fogs, then I would be more inclined to agree. There is such a thing as too much light when viewed from the driver's seat. Fogs are meant to limit their light casting to about a foot above the road from curb to curb and within close proximity to the vehicle. They are not to be confused with "driving lights" which are meant to illuminate objects at great distances and work in conjunction with your high beams. Ever drive around in real fog with your high beams on? Could you see more of the road, or less?

That being said, the common consensus regarding OEM fog lights is that they are more for show and less for actual beneficial use. In other words, whatever you end up doing will probably be more for looks than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outtafocus View Post
I wonder if the fogs need to be Canbus compatible also?
As Layoira already pointed out, they do not. I drove around for a few days with the harnesses disconnected and didn't get any bulb-out warnings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outtafocus View Post
Astra La Vista! I thought I remembered seeing a picture of your car having different fog light bulbs, was that correct?
HIDs installed in our projector assemblies is such an improvement over the stock halogens that I figured that all of the extra light that they now produce from my car is good enough for the type of driving I do. I didn't see the point of installing HIDs that would "add a little more light where I needed it and a whole lot more light where I didn't", so my final choice was more cosmetic than anything. I went with standard 3000K H10/9145 bulbs from www.autolumination.com. You can actually buy them individually without the hard plastic case and save yourself $2 per pair if you go that route. If you feel adventurous, you can even buy 100W H10/9145 bulbs from them (instead of the standard 45W ones). However, you might want to price out a replacement set of fog assemblies first, just in case you melt yours.

Rant Warning: Although I did buy my fogs and LED park lights from autolumination.com, I did not buy my HID kit from them. This was a personal choice based on the blatant false claims they make about HID colour temperature (eg: they say that 8000K and 12,000K actually improves your night vision, where every military in the world uses red for night vision, which is at the opposite end of the colour spectrum). Rant off.

...
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by outtafocus View Post
Astra La Vista! I just found the pic of your car in your puddle light thread.
Love the amber parking lights, I prefer that look over the all white look.

Very nice.

I am not going to do LEDs right away, but I may go pick up a set of regular 3157 amber bulbs today.
Again, going amber was a personal choice. Although I really liked Rondosa's pics of her car, with all of the bulbs in the 5000K-6000K range, I was also concerned that the white "park lights" would lead people to thinking that I'm driving around with my high beams on. IOW, I didn't want to deal with all those other drivers flashing me all the time. So what I have are 5000K HID headlights, 3000K halogen foglights, and fancy pants amber LED park lights. Besides, white or amber, those park lights really don't do squat as far as casting usable light forward. They are purely cosmetic. Not sure why Opel didn't install any forward firing amber park lights on our cars. With the exception of Audi, pretty much every other manufacturer does.

One thing that is interesting on our cars is that although we run 3157/4157 bulbs in the park light locations (which are dual filament bulbs), our cars only use the dimmer of the two filaments. I'm still deciding whether or not to mod my LED bulbs so that they are running in "bright" mode instead of "dim" mode.

PS: Although you said that you're planning on holding off on LED park lights for now, I would advise doing them at the same time as an HID install if you ever go that route. Although the bumper really doesn't have to come off the car in order to do either swap, it is a whole lot easier to work when everything is out in the open. I don't think it is possible to remove the headlight assemblies without taking off the bumper, so you'll have to remove the air box and fuse box, not to mention the front wheels and front fender liners in order to work. You'll need resistors for the LED bulbs as well, since the park lights are monitored by CAN-bus.

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Old 09-20-2009, 05:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: What Light Bulb For Bi Xenon Hid Kit!!!

So picked up a set of the amber standard 4157 bulbs, easy swap out with the hatch in the wheel well. The pale yellow of the standard bulbs just wasnt working for me.
I have chosen to embrace the amber on my Astra, including the dash.

Still dont understand why we must use a dual filament bulb when only one of the filaments actually lights up?
What is the difference between a 3157 and the 4157, other than $1.25? I bought the 4157 because I know it was same as stock.

I see your point about the HID fogs, and agree that addition of any different bulb to the fog light would most likely be for cosmetic reasons only.

I see the LED type fog lights on www.autolumination.com which are interesting but Im sure light output would be better with the stock bulb.

I have seen a Toyota Tacoma driving around town here with all yellow headlight lenses, I wonder how this would look on the Astra? I havent seen this truck at night to see how the lights actually look but I know many race cars which run at night or in low light have yellow lenses also.

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