SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn L-Series > L-Series General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-28-2019, 07:36 PM   #1
jemerriett
Junior Member
jemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 35
 
Default 2002 Saturn L300 rpms oscillating wildly from idle

I have both a 2002 Saturn L300 and a 2002 Saturn Lw300, owning two of these gems helps greatly when troubleshooting, until the both go south at the same time.

The issue I'm having with my L300 is that the car seems to have a huge issue increasing the rpms from idle up through about 1500 rpms. It idles fine, but no matter if it's in park or driving the car really seems to have an issue getting out of it's own way when we first give it gas. This doesn't seem to change if I have the air con on or not.

I've had issues since purchase with this car leaking from the cam covers, swelling the spark plug boots and random misfires. I've finally gotten the time and patience to pull off the top of the motor and replace the factory faulty cam cover gaskets along with new plugs and coil packs. So no more leaks, no more misfires but still this feeling like it may stall when we take off from a start.

Using my alibaba tech 2 I've done some checking between my L300(bad) and Lw300(good), fuel pressure looks good, the car seems to recognize changes in the throttle position smoothly and evenly, but the L300 at 7% TP might go from 1400 rpm down to 800, then back up again. Makes for a lot of fun when you're pulling into Los Angeles traffic.

My research on alldatadiy so far has gotten me nowhere, running through other car forums and youtube made me think my IAC was dirty, only to find out Saturn V6 do not have IAC...even though Autozone wants to sell me one for 19.99.

I'm at the point where I want to look at the butterfly valve on my throttlebody, but I'm kind of out after that.

Has anyone else run into an issue like this?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to jemerriett's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help jemerriett reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
jemerriett is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 07-28-2019, 08:49 PM   #2
jemerriett
Junior Member
jemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 35
 
Default Re: 2002 Saturn L300 rpms oscillating wildly from idle

So I decided to remove the air intake hose from the throttlebody and spray the some carb cleaner inside, I watched as the muddy looking fluid ran back out of the throttle body opening. I see what I think is crankcase venting just before the butterfly valve, this seems like a great plan and a perfect way to generate business later. So with the air cleaner, maf, and all disconnected from the throttlebody, my car worked perfectly. I threw a p0102 code while everything was disconnected. I put everything back together and the car still ran fine but the code was still standing. When I cleared the code with my scanner, my problem returned. I guess the MAF was dirty enough to really screw up the performance, but not bad enough to actually fail. I cleaned the MAF with some MAF cleaner and tried again. For now it looks like everything is fixed....but I'm going to drive if for awhile to see if the hesitation and surging comes back.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to jemerriett's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help jemerriett reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
jemerriett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2019, 10:23 PM   #3
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,523
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2002 Saturn L300 rpms oscillating wildly from idle

There's nothing in service manuals to schedule maf and throttle cleaning so its an individual decision to clean them. As you know, maf sensors must be cleaned using maf sensor cleaner and not any solvent lest a coating forms from residue and alter sensor operation. The throttle actuator must be cleaned carefully with a rag soaked in solvent to prevent fluids seeping into vent holes, possibly soaking electronics and creating electrical issues. You didn't mention mileage and if prior cleaning was performed on these two parts.

The P0102 maf sensor error was likely triggered when it was disconnected and engine started as the OBD II system automatically detected it not connected. Some error codes do not need resetting - the self tests performed on every startup with car driven determines if an error was corrected from repair or remains. If corrected, as in reconnecting the maf sensor, the OBD II system will leave the engine light on for several engine/drive cycles and if the error is corrected the engine light is automatically turned off. The evap error codes is one example where a loos gas cap or damage to the evap system requires repair or replacement of parts. When corrected, several days of driving is needed before the self diagnostic system determines the repair corrected the problem before resetting the engine light and erasing the error code. Genuine errors will not go away no matter how many times a manual reset is performed whether by reader or battery disconnect. Programming prevents anyone from gaming the emissions systems to circumvent federal/state emissions inspections. If you are familiar with VW's Dieselgate embarrassment, VW was found guilty of illegal use of test software that was supposed to be disabled but enabled to run only during emissions testing but disabled and allowed diesel emissions far above regulations. Caught illegally bypassing diesel emissions, fines were imposed in the billions, much of it paying for subsidizing the electrical charging stations in the USA for the ev revolution. States also used fines from VW to pay for city and state environmental repairs to infrastructure that would otherwise be delayed due to lack of funds and/or politics.

There is a definite visual test for the throttle; with ignition on, have someone press on the gas pedal as you observe throttle plate movement. Movement should mimic pedal travel, smoothly and not erratic. Drive by wire systems incorporate dual position sensors in pedal and throttle for safety as all four sensors are monitored and compared to memory with any one sensor failure triggering Reduced Power Mode or limp home mode where engine power is reduced to 15% to allow limping off the road to make the emergency call instead of dying in place. This also prevent any chances of a runaway engine.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2019, 02:01 PM   #4
jemerriett
Junior Member
jemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 35
 
Default Re: 2002 Saturn L300 rpms oscillating wildly from idle

So I've been working with this issue on and off for years. As stated before I have both a 2002 L300 and 2002 LW300. I often swap parts between these two vehicles to troubleshoot issue. I've visited the local scrap yards over the years and have collected a hoard of various parts. Somehow I've accumulated 4 different MAF sensor of unknown condition.

After cleaning the MAF in the L300, which had zero impact on my issue, I traded it with the one in the LW300. This impacted both cars. Before the swap, the LW300 had developed this issue where on occasion during cold start the car would chug, misfire, and occasionally die. Then after 20 or 30 seconds it would run fine. The LW300 would also experience very hard starting at times after warm up. This caused no codes to be set and unfortunately I was not able to use my tech 2 to troubleshoot this start up issue. By the time the tech 2 would recover from the car starting, the condition would clear.

Swapping the MAF sensors, actually cleared this problem on the LW300. Right now the LW300 is working properly. I no longer have any starting or running problems at all. This is all going on with the suspect MAF sensor from the L300. On the L300, I lost the strange oscillation in the 1k to 1.5K range, but I started throwing a P0405 code. This code would seem to get set when the car was at idle and you could feel the idle fall a few hundred RPM. When this code would set, I would lose the ability to use the interior dome light. If I would move the slide selector toward the driver's side, I would get an alarm that I had an open door/trunk. But the car was driving fine, no surging or stutter in acceleration.

I used the trouble shooting flowchart for the P0405 code found on alldatadiy. I found the voltage on the EGR sensor was not steady, it would vary from 0.65vdc to 0.69vdc. I ran the same test on my LW300 and found the EGR sensor was stable at 0.71vdc.

I ended up purchasing yet another MAF sensor from Amazon. I cleared the standing code and dtc memory, then installed the new MAF sensor. The EGR sensor on the L300 is now stable at 0.73vdc. For now the rpm oscillation is gone, I haven't thrown any codes, and my dome light is working as designed.

Strange that the MAF sensor could cause strange issues on one car, yet seem to work perfectly on another.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to jemerriett's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help jemerriett reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
jemerriett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 10:21 PM   #5
jemerriett
Junior Member
jemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura aboutjemerriett has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 35
 
Default Re: 2002 Saturn L300 rpms oscillating wildly from idle

So it's been almost 5 months since I replaced the MAF on my L300. It seems that corrected my issue with the rpms. During the troubleshooting of the RPM issue I started to randomly loose the ability to control on my interior lights and the door lights didn't work either. The really odd thing about this is while in the blackout period, if I slid the dome light control over toward the driver I'd get an open door indication on the dash. Usually restarting the car would clear the issue but it would soon return while driving. You could see a momentary lapse in the way the car ran and then the blackout was back. Everything except the dome and door lights seem to instantly recover. I thought perhaps my junkyard BCM was finally going bad on me. I decided to swap it with the original one that caused an issue with the abs. Swapping the BCMs made no change with the lights. I decided to test each fuse in the underhood fuse box with a volt meter. All fuses tested 0 volts across the test points as they should, except for the 10 amp fuse for BCM2, it tested just over 7.5 volts. I replaced the fuse and now my car is back to "normal", well I can at least turn on the dome and map lights. I looked at this tiny fuse but didn't see an obvious defect. I used my ohm meter on the blades and found out with movement the readings changed.

Other than the odd random issue with the dome & door lights, I didn't have an issue with driveability. If I hadn't fumbled my way into a configuration with the non-working dome/map lights that caused my remote locking to fail, I might have never taken the time to troubleshoot this.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to jemerriett's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help jemerriett reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
jemerriett is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2002 Saturn vue RPMs Buckeye2017 Vue General 5 01-08-2017 06:28 PM
2002 L300 V6 rough idle pupilot007 L-Series Tech 2 12-29-2009 06:29 PM
Chronic Problem with Violently Oscillating RPMs when in Neutral C. Gadda S-Series Tech 26 07-17-2009 08:40 PM
95 SW1 Oscillating (rythmic) Idle???? akpackfan S-Series Tech 12 04-26-2008 01:02 PM
Idle oscillating/hunting when engine is hot?? akpackfan S-Series Tech 4 04-04-2008 06:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.