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Old 01-18-2020, 06:50 PM   #41
Chaz9496
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

Well, one of those still exists on the T.V. airwaves. Anyway, I've been having Fan Issues again. I was driving out of town last weekend and came to a light after I got there and heard something, so I had to turn down the radio. Low and behold, the fans were running at high speed, AGAIN. It was 8 degrees out and the idle was slightly higher but not drastic. I would assume from the fans running is why. The last time the fans were on full speed the knock sensor wire was broken on the connector. I reset the codes and "Yee,Haw" they stayed off. I was told by a tech that any voltage issues will tell the computer there's a problem and run the fans. Welp, now back to the problem again. The T-Stat was replaced 3 months ago. It was roughly 5 years old. I just did it for my own reference due to the time it was replaced last. I was sitting at a Hardee's parking lot eating and the engine almost stalled but came back to life. I unplugged the fans and headed back home as fast as I could, w/out speeding. I thought it may stall out going home 45 miles away and my friend with a truck was in rehab so I had no ride or way to tow it home if it would stall and not start again. This has happened before but with the fans off. I have no idea what causes the engine to do that, I've had others that have done that as well, it's probably common. Anyway continuing on, the temp gauge was under 1/4 and heat starting to fail slightly on the way there, so something didn't look right. The fans were cooling it in the 8 degree weather. Well, that would do it. Now finding the problem for the second time this issue's plagued me. I read the Idle Speed sensor can cause this. Not sure of the problem yet. I may have to have my (Non-Do It Myself) tech check into his If I can't find it this time. I've had the fans run like this, then stay off on it's own before. Hopefully this is going to be this time.

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Old 01-18-2020, 11:18 PM   #42
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Dizzy Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

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...I read the Idle Speed sensor can cause this. Not sure of the problem yet.
To be clear, there is no Idle Speed Sensor. There is an Idle Air Control Valve which has a direct impact on the change in idle speed; from a cold start up until the cooling system has warmed enough to allow a steady decrease of the engine idle RPM until it reaches the correct curb idle RPM.

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I may have to have my (Non-Do It Myself) tech check into his If I can't find it this time. I've had the fans run like this, then stay off on it's own before. Hopefully this is going to be this time.
I hope that it's so for you as well!

When last we met with our indefatigable four-wheeled friend on As the Trouble Code Turns the nuisance code was gone. However, the day after that last post P0507 appeared again without the appearance of the SES warning lamp. While the engine idle was below 1000 RPM it was still too high and had remained there for too long after having been started. Now, for three days the code hasn't appeared although I expect that it will in due course.

With that in mind, and not wanting to be redundant about the symptoms I've regularly seen, I don't expect to post anything further here until this issue is resolved. At this point I'm not sure what my next step, or steps, will be. I do know that I have little interest in simply installing new parts which can be related to this problem, but not lead to resolving it.

I appreciate all of the input provided by other members here in this thread. You have helped me!
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

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[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"] At this point I'm not sure what my next step, or steps, will be. I do know that I have little interest in simply installing new parts which can be related to this problem, but not lead to resolving it.
I can relate to that. That's just throwing money at it to resolve a problem that's not known what the issue is until it's properly diagnosed. I've done that before and it's a waste of time and $$$ as well. Today I noticed that the heat only got hot when it was idling at a stop light or S-Sign and gets cooler again as you start going. The temp will go up in between 1/4 and 1/2 when it get's hot, then drops to 1/4 when your moving again. It's been barely above 10 degrees most of the weekend and parts of last week but the gauge never did fluctuate like it is now before. I did change the T-Stat a few months ago, which I might have mentioned already in this same topic. I didn't replace the seal but since the T-Stat was replaced this is when it seemed to fluctuate in temperature. I still have the old stat in the garage that I may put back in WITH a new seal and see what happens. I suspect possibly the coolant may be leaking past the seal since it was never replaced this time, or a Clog or Air Pocket in the system. From what I read in the Chilton's manual, I thought the coolant tank was Self Bled and wasn't needed with this type of system, others makes needing to run with the cap off as you do when I owned cars with capped radiators and tanks. I could hear air bubbling when I was refilling it, so I assumed it was bleeding itself. I know nothing about how the "Non-Capped" radiator system works refilling it. I don't remember ever doing it before when changing it and it worked fine. Any thoughts will be helpful if I'm reading that incorrectly.

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Old 01-22-2020, 08:25 AM   #44
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

What kind of T stat did you use? I have run into a lot of problems with cheap stats. Either go with OEM GM (very expensive) or a stant super stat mid range in price. Never use those fail safe stats. Also why wouldn't you replace the seal why you had it apart?
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:59 AM   #45
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

Murray T-Stat because I work at O'Reillys due to the fact I'm coasting to retirement so to speak. lol. I get it close to 1/2 off. I asked a tech about it that I deliver to and he said, That's probably it, I used a Murray. lol. He may be right, I didnt change the seal because i did when I replaced it in the other engine in 2013 and it didnt look bad in any way. I'm going to change it back to the old one that looked still new and with a new seal and see what I get from there, it may not have needed changed at all in the first place, at least it had heat at that time.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:38 AM   #46
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

I see they are $6 bucks. I would never put a cheap Tstat like that in my car. Sometimes going cheap can cost a lot more in the long run. I paid $16 for my Super stat at local store but now Rock auto has them back in stock for $9.
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:03 AM   #47
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

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What kind of T stat did you use? I have run into a lot of problems with cheap stats. Either go with OEM GM (very expensive) or a stant super stat mid range in price. Never use those fail safe stats. Also why wouldn't you replace the seal why you had it apart?
Have you had problems with the fail safe thermostats ?
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:04 AM   #48
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

$6 ? mine was 13 at my cost for the Murray. The one I had in it was a Duralast from Autozone. It worked fine to me. I jist changed it out because it was going on 7 years since I replaced it, that was when my Mom owned it. She gave it to my Son in 2015. The trans went out in it, so I put the engine in my 2001 because it only had 95K miles on it and nine was smoking at 200K. I know that doesnt have anything to do with the topic but just sayin'.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:20 PM   #49
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

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......Today I noticed that the heat only got hot when it was idling at a stop light or S-Sign and gets cooler again as you start going. The temp will go up in between 1/4 and 1/2 when it get's hot, then drops to 1/4 when your moving again. It's been barely above 10 degrees most of the weekend and parts of last week but the gauge never did fluctuate like it is now....... I did change the T-Stat a few months ago, which I might have mentioned already in this same topic. I didn't replace the seal but since the T-Stat was replaced this is when it seemed to fluctuate in temperature. I still have the old stat in the garage that I may put back in WITH a new seal and see what happens. I suspect possibly the coolant may be leaking past the seal since it was never replaced this time, or a Clog or Air Pocket in the system. From what I read in the Chilton's manual, I thought the coolant tank was Self Bled and wasn't needed with this type of system, others makes needing to run with the cap off as you do when I owned cars with capped radiators and tanks. I could hear air bubbling when I was refilling it, so I assumed it was bleeding itself. I know nothing about how the "Non-Capped" radiator system works refilling it. I don't remember ever doing it before when changing it and it worked fine. Any thoughts will be helpful if I'm reading that incorrectly.
With sophistication in EFI engines, not using a reader allows all sorts of speculation. Why a reader isn't used for more accurate coolant temperature measurement is questionable. Once an engine reaches operating temps via its t-stat, it doesn't matter what the outside temps are. T-stats work in a fluid environment, detecting hotter or colder coolant and varies coolant flow to regulate temps at rated specs. If the temperature needle moves up and down, its usually not because of outside temps but either the t-stat or seals related to securing the t-stat in its housing. While the radiator may have 10F degree cold air flowing thru it to super cool coolant, the t-stat is only monitoring engine coolant temps, effectively ensuring the cylinder walls aren't melting by allowing coolant flow when rated temps forces it to open to allow coolant flow to regulate engine coolant temps, not radiator temps. Whether old school radiators with metal radiator caps or present cooling systems using a plastic pressure/vacuum cap on a surge tank, both cooling systems perform the same function, to maintain cooling systems to remove excessive heat from engines.

The present cooling systems in GM have built in self bleeding whether the coolant pressure cap is screwed on or left off after a drain, flush and refill procedure. On level ground, refilling an empty cooling system always leaves air in its system, seen as bubbling during refilling procedures. On initial startup, the water pump runs to move coolant. Since the t-stat is closed, coolant flows thru an alternate path thru the heater core. The heater core doesn't have a shutoff valve. Any air trapped in a system is forced out of the engine to the heater core. The heater core empties into the coolant container. Trapped air is forced out immediately into the coolant container, seen as lowering coolant level. As the engine heats up, the t-stat opens to allow coolant from the radiator to flow thru. Cooling down, the t-stat closes, always regulating engine block temperatures.

Topping off should occur within the first few minutes right after refilling a cooling system, preferably with the coolant cap off. Once bubbling stops, coolant level ceases to lower, the cap is put on. The car should be either idled in the driveway to allow pressure and operating temps to come up or driven around the block then coolant level checked again. In normal conditions, all air was purged either from initial fill up/start up with any remaining air purged after driving as operating temps are reached. The coolant tank is the only way to assess coolant level. It's also pressurized since it is integrated into the cooling system. The air in the container allows for expansion and contraction for better system operation since it provides a way for coolant to expand under pressure without losing it compared to older radiator systems with caps that allowed the overflow to the ground or into a container. Metal and plastic pressure caps have a vacuum valve to allow coolant to return in older cooling systems with present coolant containers allow air back into the small space. Since radiators are large and aerodynamics called for streamlining the front end, removing the radiator cap lowers the radiator height. Adding a coolant container and plastic pressure/vacuum cap fulfills and improves the cooling system.

My guess is the old seal softened and allows hot coolant flow. T-stats tend to remain reliable for the most part. T-stats have only one enemy - oil contamination. Service manuals always mentions if a cooling system is contaminated with oil, the t-stat should be replaced immediately. Older rubber seals soften from petroleum. Some synthetic seals also suffer from oil contamination so its wise to simply replace them when called for. The t-stat element uses a wax pellet and my guess is wax isn't compatible with motor oil or fuel.

Below are snapshots of t-stats from the S-series forums. Engines overheating from the infamous original coolant sensor caused these seals to melt.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t-stat 1.jpg (119.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg t-stat 2.jpg (60.8 KB, 6 views)
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VCX NANO
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

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Have you had problems with the fail safe thermostats ?
Never used one in a Saturn but have had them fail in a Subaru and Chevy. One in Subaru cost me a head gasket because I was miles from anything in AZ and had to drive it home over heating. Will never use one again.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:34 AM   #51
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

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Never used one in a Saturn but have had them fail in a Subaru and Chevy. One in Subaru cost me a head gasket because I was miles from anything in AZ and had to drive it home over heating. Will never use one again.
Interesting, so they didnt fail in the open position ? They are supposed to lock in the open position if the engine starts overheating. I had one do that when head gasket blew on a 3.1 GM engine. The T-stat was wide open when I
removed it.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

Here's some pics of my gauge today. Sitting at idle for 15 min. while I was on lunch at work is the high one, and driving about 10 min is the lower temp. Ambient outside temp is 31. As I stated before, this started 3 months after replacing the Duralast T- Stat. I just wonder if the Heater Core's clogged. This has never happened with this different engine before. I guess i'm still not understanding the replies the senior members have been explaining on what could be going on here. Remember, the fans are disconnected due to them being always on while the engine's running. Sorry, for some reason the High Temperature reading keeps failing and won't upload. Anyway, it's almost on 3/4 of the way up. The coolant tank's full and when I last saw the Heater Core in 2015 it showed 2005 on the date on the side. It appears it was changed 15 years ago or so.
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File Type: jpg 008.jpg (216.1 KB, 7 views)

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Old 01-23-2020, 10:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

Since the cost is low I would suggest replacing the T-stat. That would eliminate one cause.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:12 PM   #54
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

Just to go thru some codes I pulled today..P0128..PO420..PO533..P1599..UO100. Coolant Temp, O2 Sensor Circuit High, A/C Pressure Switch, Engine Near Stall, Loss Of Powertrain Communication. Since I've had the car there's been 2 new codes show up, the PO128 & PO533. The rest have pretty much been coming back for the 5 years I've had it, even after the codes were cleared. This may be the Fan issue with those 2 codes. It's a little off topic but it may have something to do with the Fans not shutting off. Just thought I'd add the codes as a possible cause. Some wouldn't cause them to run tho. Too add, both Heater Core hoses are hot, so I don't suspect a clog being the problem. I also read in the Coolant Temp code that it doesn't reach normal running temperature in a significant time in colder temperatures. Exactly. The probable causes's are mostly T-Stat or Seal issues or low coolant. The Tank is still full when hot.

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Old 01-29-2020, 10:21 PM   #55
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

I did find that the coolant level was low and slight air still in the system. A deteriorated rubber gasket on top and bottom sides of the thermostat. For some odd reason there's holes around it and two rubber seals that close them off on top and bottom of the flange that opens. I assume it was letting coolant thru. The Head Gasket wasn't blown, thank God for that as I feared. So far, I have nice Hot Heat again. I also found I was supposedly refilling it incorrectly. Your supposed to jack the front up to get the pressure tank to the highest point while filling, which the Chilton's manual doesn't state that. Hopefully this will hold up the rest of the season. Now I have to figure out why the A/C Compressor is out again. This A/C system is beginning to be a big pain in the Butt for me for the past 5 years. Every year it quits working. I'll never understand it. I've never had a car do that, when it worked anyway.

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Old 05-01-2020, 08:05 PM   #56
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Thumbs Up Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

I had my car smog checked yesterday and, no, the P0507 issue has not been resolved. I was concerned that it might not pass since there was a stored DTC although the SES warning lamp was off. The mechanic said it was a history code and believed that it would pass in all likelihood. In short, he was right. The smog test was successful just all others had been to date.

He was surprised when he looked at the odometer and saw the 331,000+ miles on the vehicle. The car continues to run well in spite of the fact that there are still occasional flare ups of the high engine idle. (Some day it will be corrected. ) My highway mileage during the "shelter-in-place" order and business closures has topped 35 MPG - and the car is 20 years old!
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Old 10-25-2020, 10:06 PM   #57
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

A few days ago those classic symptoms reappeared - high engine idle and high fan speeds - and it was, as you might expect, annoying. FWIW, I'm going to replace the donor FCM currently on the car with the factory installed unit and see what happens. My hunch is that nothing will change, but I don't expect it will do any harm. Minimally, it will either confirm or eliminate that part as a source for the problem I'm having.

I will keep y'all posted!
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:55 AM   #58
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

I’ll read through this again tonight, I have the high fan issue and it was the thermostat. But I Have not had the high idle part. Off to work now.
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Old 10-26-2020, 11:17 PM   #59
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

The P0507 is strictly a high idle speed code.

I just went through this with my 454 1995 Chevy shop truck. My old truck only sets two digit codes so that is how I missed it.

What I had was that the stepper motor could not control the idle speed. I replaced the stepper motor first based on the code but without proper diagnosis. I had to connect a data scanner to see what was really the issue.

The stepper motor was closing the bypass port as much as it could and the idle was still too high when the truck was all the way warmed up in the middle of summer.

I had to remove the cap over the throttle plate adjustment screw. This is an extremely tough hardened steel cap. I had to cut it with a cut off wheel no drill would touch it. I was able to close the throttle plate enough to get the stepper into middle of its control range.
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Old 10-27-2020, 12:33 AM   #60
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Default Re: High engine fan speed in cold weather...a brief story...

Hmm...what would be the equivalent of a "stepper motor" from the Chevy Pick up to something on an L-Series car with a 2.2L ECOTEC engine? Would it be the IAC valve? The only other major influencing part on the throttle body is the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).

Parts I've replaced which might have, but did not correct this issue are...

1) thermostat (with gasket); 2) temperature senor (the old one broke and it's probably because I inadvertantly struck it during another repair); 3) Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) including a full cleaning of the throttle body; 4) Air Charge Temperature Sensor.
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340,000 miles - Holy canolli!
Joe Biden for POTUS and Kamala Harris for VEEP. What follows if they get their way? A bad economy, weak military, increased terrorism and a greater RED CHINA.
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