SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Site Information > Community Center
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-20-2018, 04:07 PM   #1
Francophile50
Member
Francophile50 is on a distinguished road
 
Francophile50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 81

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Low mileage used Saturns

Why are there so many of these vehicles? You would think that many more people would have driven them till the wheels fell off. Just recently by talking to people I've met more people who despise Saturns. I mean I think that they feel they're worthless and are totally unreliable. I don't know how to feel about this. Part of me is upset because people don't respect the brand. The other part of me says good I will have an endless source of parts for quite a while and or maybe the choice of some great vehicles that were not appreciated the way they should have been. What are your thoughts I am totally happy with the quality of the vehicle even though there are some downsides. I have had vehicle that have not died and I love the design of most if not all of the vehicles.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Francophile50's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Francophile50 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Francophile50 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 07-20-2018, 05:20 PM   #2
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 40,824
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Low mileage used Saturns

L-series aside, the major problems with Saturn was (and is to this day on unsuspecting S-series owners) the infamous original two wire coolant sensor that was corrected until much later in a service bulletin around '99. GM/Saturn did not know from Saturn's first year '91 to '01. A service bulletin was put out ('03) to replace the round nosed plastic sensor with a redesigned flat nosed brass one, correcting years of overheating, melted seals on thermostats, poor fuel economy, erratic shifts, erratic idling, and the worst offense - diluting the cylinder walls of excessive fuel, ruining piston rings resulting in premature engine wear as many became oil burners consuming more than normal oil. The coolant sensor were running in the S-series from '91-'01, 10 years of this. The S-series forums are full of members with this problem and attempting to deal with long term maintenance to reap whatever life is left of these cars. Many still refuse to abandon their Saturns when problems are fixed to prolong a trouble free car with little value but zero monthly payments, no interest on loan payments, and not paying higher insurance rates for newer cars. Many not owning Saturns may not reveal they're perpetually paying for a rental, leasing cars so they can avoid repairs and have the luxury of getting a new car every few years but still make monthly payments against mature Saturn owners not chasing the next new car with more bells and whistles. Saturn/GM failed to recognize the coolant sensor issue creating a host of major problems and may have began a love/hate relationship with owners. The L-series is an upscale model as well as Vues. Auras replaced the L-series while the last two models, Ions and Astras were added. I can't recall when Saturn folded before GM filed for bankruptcy to reorganize and close more models.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Service Information-1.pdf (96.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: pdf Service Information-2.pdf (120.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: pdf Service Information-3.pdf (140.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: pdf Service Information-4.pdf (100.0 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by fdryer; 07-20-2018 at 05:27 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2018, 03:16 AM   #3
Francophile50
Member
Francophile50 is on a distinguished road
 
Francophile50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 81

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Low mileage used Saturns

I heard there were many things wrong with the Saturn brand which is not unique. these problems existed in other cars in the GM line or in other companies like Ford or Dodge which is probably the most unreliable of All American cars. the only difference is that GM no longer wanted to continue to fund what they thought was a losing venture. I've heard that many have said that there wasn't many choices in Saturn cars they've kind of sold the same car for 10 years. by the time that they came up with sportier sexier more Innovative cars than their first generation it was too late and GM had already pulled the plug. I never knew about the coolant problem with the S line but I do remember something early on about electrical problems with their starter or ignition systems. the faulty wiring would cause engine fires and their only solution was to isolate the problem so that it would not cause an engine fire it would just burn up leaving the driver abandoned due to burnt up lines. I don't mean to Moline a certain group of people but I heard the ions and use were the most problematic of all the cars within the brand. In my opinion that's too bad because they sure were unattractive car. Such a shame that such a company fell by the wayside when it's just started to get going. Saturn has always been a forward-thinking company in design and practical applications marketing everything. I think do too many of the design and manufacture problems people have had bad experiences or have told their bad experiences to friends and family who believe them and thought the brand was not a good one. I never was a fan of the S Series cars. I'm not a fan of sedans or sports cars or SUVs. The wagons appealed most to me and I started off leasing an S Wagon in 96 then purchasing an S Wagon in 98. I'm a toddler man and at that point threw in the towel and said I'm too tall for the small car and went back one last time to see if there was something else that I could use better and realized they had redesigned the station wagon and I bought my first L series Wagon in 2002. That car I drove up until about a month ago and put 250020 miles on it before it became too prohibitive to own. it wasn't the car's fault someone hit it and the insurance company had a auto body Place rip the bumpers off and steamed it too expensive to repair and decided to give it to me as Salvage at that point or pay me what they thought it was worth. I'm surprised I got $2240 for the vehicle only a difference of $1, 010 of the new Saturn wagon I picked up as used. That car had 68, 000 miles and seemed like a good investment. little did I know that the car had been sitting for years and things were starting to fall apart on it because it wasn't being driven the way it should have been. Well invested another 1500 or so into the car and now I have a car that is basically new and I will hopefully put another 200, 000 miles on. it was this or by some other Japanese or modern car that I really could not identify with. I was also considering purchasing a brand new Subaru Outback for over $40, 000. And now by investing in the car that I love I have no car payments or have paid any interest on a finance of a vehicle over 6 year period. Saturn folded Halloween 2010. I'm not sure what to make of all the excess Saturn's with low miles being sold now. Maybe the people who initially bought them took really good care of them and coveted them in a way that they never really drove them and now they're too old or their family members do not wish to inherit this vehicle which they cared for. Saturn has never been an icon like Cadillac or BMW or Porsche and now Tesla. I will however state that I'm grateful that's such cars are still in abundance and I am easily finding broken parts to replenish on my 2001 wagon and hope to maybe purchase another Wagon in future or maybe just drive these until I no longer can which hopefully will be in another 15 years. Scott

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Francophile50's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Francophile50 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Francophile50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2018, 04:15 PM   #4
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 40,824
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Low mileage used Saturns

Back in the '80s when Saturn was being thought of to present "a forward-thinking company in design and practical applications [in] marketing.." was a great idea to attract foreign car buyers to a domestic car starting out with a low cost one. I think at the time, GM hand many brands that basically mimicked each other with inbreeding causing sibling rivalry for corporate money. Far too many divisions holding their hands out that couldn't support themselves. Saturn was introduced with disdain by every family member just because it was the new kid on the block and attracted new car buyers uninterested in every GM model. The demise of Saturn came from a total lack of GM support, staying with one model for ten years, GM infighting when dwindling profits were created from far too many brands not selling by the millions in a changing market and economy while supporting dealers with some of the largest infrastructure to make and sell cars while competing with foreign brands often surpassing domestic brands. Even now, the market changed as more buyers are drawn into the suv/cuv attraction as long as gasoline remains under $3/gal. And blame this phenomena with fat overweight Americans that can't fit into cars to complete the picture.

My brother in-law bought a '14(?) Subaru Outlook with their version of CVTs and I had the opportunity to drive it. Zero, shiftless driving, adequate power for a wagon that's a little heavy due to awd but for regular use a fine vehicle. I was surprised to find myself running at higher than normal speed in intermittent rain as I passed many suvs and wondered why. The car gave me a sure footed feeling with new tires in relative silence (not distracted by radio noise). I drove it empty going someplace and drove it full on the return trip. Suspension seemed a little harsh (75k miles) but I prefer firmness as opposed to boat riding/wallowing all over the place. My '03 L300 rides a little harsh, inherited from its European heritage and while not friendly on local streets with damage, it rides smooth on highways.

Saturn may be the younger family member not getting attention while older brothers demanded/commanded dwindling monies GM didn't have, hence bankruptcy. To me, it's a joke how GM allowed itself to excesses and not have the corporate temerity to jettison brands that weren't contributing to the overall bottom line. Infighting and internal politics did in GM as it shows brands less now than what it was when it was slowly losing ground after the '80's or '90's. Blind ignorance drove GM to bankruptcy.

Saturns in general and reported here have not been subject to wiring failure resulting in fires. Those may be exceptions and without any real info, might be hearsay or poor maintenance. Even Saturn has a long list of service bulletins to correct new found problems no different from any other car company. Tesla is now well recognized with more drivers taking unnecessary risks and crashing a perfectly good electric car. So far the car has not been proven to have major faults, including it autopilot feature. Far too many morons assumed AP will drive anywhere without the driver monitoring it, only to find its not advertised as 100% fail proof. There is no such thing as a fully autonomous vehicle capable to navigating every street, road, and highway. Tesla and Musk reiterates this by reminding drivers responsibility to monitor the AP at all times yet deaths occurs because the AP cannot determine every unusual situation an experienced human is trained to do. The driver killing a woman art night deliberately watched a tv episode, distracted driving when given specific instructions to monitor AP. This is partly the fault of an an ignorant driver not acknowledging the real risks until it was too late and Tesla for not hiring people and training them for the real world task of babysitting ap when the test driver failed to do exactly as instructed. I wouldn't like monitoring/babysitting autopilot but that's exactly what every commercial airline pilot does in automated flight systems - babysitting the flight management systems during cruise and taking over to manually fly when conditions like poor weather may not be 100% free of issues when an experience pilot will land aircraft. Its a little known secret but Tesla owners relying on AP for 100% driving ignores warnings against baby sitting AP for the very real eventuality of it no capable of small issues that can result in death of injury because a driver feels comfortable. The false sense of security that's resulted in deaths not only with Teslas but other cars using autonomous control.

One of the few public and corporate failures with GM was with the ignition switch failures occurring in Ions and other GM brands, prompting a major recall as a safety issue. GM bean counters, the bottom line overseers with zero industrial skills in engineering somehow allowed or were convinced by engineers to use poorly designed 'electronic' ignition switches (operating on 5v levels, not conventional 12v configurations used for decades). The problem, found here, was the use of grease that thickened in freezing temperatures. Add in the skinny and delicate wiper arms used in all low voltage switches and 'the perfect storm' occurred when the wiper arms couldn't make electrical contact to complete a circuit. The thickened grease meant to lube contacts forced wiper arms away from making contact, killing circuits or confusing the engine computer, detecting a false theft triggering Passlock, GMs factory alarm system to disable the starting circuit. Members finding this simply removed excess grease and ignition switches went back to normal operation. This was before the ignition switch recall.....It's hearsay but suspicions are that the replacement ignition switches are the same but have less grease or a lighter weight grease in them.

I was never a wagon man but at the time with (other) little VIPS wearing diapers or fidgeting like all children, a wagon was right. I had it towed away after 140k miles. It wasn't worth keeping because it went thru two head gaskets. If it wasn't for the ac compressor losing its rubber flex as part of its clutch plate and my lack of knowing how to replace it back then, I would have kept it longer. Suffering on long summer drives without ac forced my hand. I liked the spaciousness to carry all sorts of stuff in the rear. The VIPS are all grown and now drive their own death traps.

Last edited by fdryer; 07-21-2018 at 04:24 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 11:24 AM   #5
Francophile50
Member
Francophile50 is on a distinguished road
 
Francophile50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 81

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Low mileage used Saturns

Fdryer I agree with a lot of what you have to say. As far as GM having an incestuous relationship among states Brands and all the inviting that ensued had been happening for decades so it was kind of an understood or given thing. things like this were common in all companies in America no matter whether it was at Ford Lincoln Mercury or at the Mopar Dodge Chrysler Plymouth. The Big Three always were bloated and had graft and weren't as efficient or Innovative as its European or Japanese counterparts. They're bloated confident style set the tone for what became failures and impractical Innovations for decades upon decades. Only having been beaten for decades we decided to become competitive within the last 20 years. this is where Saturn came in but unfortunately because of the prior decades of bloated and practical systems in place we weren't able to save all of the brands within the GM line. Pontiac Oldsmobile Hummer and Saturn were all victims. We are now left with Chevrolet for the basic models, Buick for the middle models, and Cadillac for the upscale luxurious models and GMC for the complete Truck Line. By the way what the heck is Holden and sgmw anyway? as far as Subaru is concerned yes it's a different type of car and I just couldn't bring myself to be part of that family after spending all my life in GM. but of all the cars made today it was most like the type of car that I'm used to and then Japanese as opposed to being German I was more inclined to be of that type of buyer then an SUV or some kind of trendy car like the Kia Soul or Toyota Prius type of person. The Saturn wiring problem was a problem and was reported on NBC CBS ABC as a national problem with the brand. Tesla on the other hand maybe technology so superior that is drivers are unable or incapable of handling it. I live near the Tesla Factory in Fremont and have friends who are drivers that shuttle the employees back and forth. I am a driver who Parks his vehicle at Moffett Field in Mountain View and I see Tesla cars and trucks being tested all the time. I saw the accident of a Tesla driver who drove into a median trying to perform an illegal maneuver on the freeway and paid the price with his life. I don't blame the car I blame the driver and drivers in general for the way they drive dangerously to get two seconds ahead of the next guy. what was most surprising and shocking to me about the Tesla is that it took a long time to put the car fire out and then after they hauled the vehicle way the car reignited in the salvage yard and had to be extinguished again. The fire department had to call in a special unit and douse the car with a foam flame retardant because the batteries we're burning at such a intense temperature that they could not properly extinguish the fire with their normal means. could you imagine a world where everybody drove a Tesla and we're getting into accidents like what happens normally? Tesla doesn't advertise this and they usually pay off people who are in accidents to stay silent so that they can sell more cars. even though Tesla is a very Innovative type of car I don't see them being a Mainstay for the long run or say 2030 years from now. As far as the style of a car I never really saw myself as a wagon person either. I thought that it would be practical to have a kind of sporty sedan I never saw myself as a sports car or even a truck person. I flirted with a International Scout II four-wheel drive vehicle. I owned a 1985 Cadillac Eldorado. I even bought a Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 but I would never think of buying a Corvette. after that in my early thirties I discovered the Saturn wagons and for the last 20 years this is where I have remained. I have hauled so many things including Furniture 6ft long tables that don't fold and countless other things that you wouldn't imagine in my Saturn wagons. I love the European styling it's a departure from the archaic American style that I grew up with in the last 50 years. my only wish with Saturn is that the parts would be more interchangeable so you could change the styling of your vehicle like you change your clothes. but again being an American company they want you to discard your old car and buy a new one every year or other year so that they would have a institution to make a life on. I guess people didn't like having the same car for 10 years and moved on to other cars which made the line less profitable than it could have been but if they would have created a more interchangeable car then maybe people would have held on to the car and purchase more variants more often. I am thinking with junk yards and the help of others I can change the styling of the Saturn's that I own but still remain Within the stock options that were provided by the manufacturer over the years. Thanks for your input and thoughts. Scott

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Francophile50's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Francophile50 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Francophile50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 12:05 PM   #6
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 40,824
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Low mileage used Saturns

The original Saturn was never a profit maker and was accepted by GM. Saturn was just a way to attract new car buyers not wanting to pay higher prices for many cars and appealed to a market for low cost. Marketing knows once a brand captures a market segment, replacing that car can lead to moving up to a better equipped one and stay with GM. Taking ten years before introducing the second model, the L-series, was too late. GM marketing to support all the other brands and leave Saturn to go it alone. As you know, GM was already in the throes of bleeding away money on its way to bankruptcy. Ford is the only one not filling for bankruptcy protection.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 04:18 PM   #7
Francophile50
Member
Francophile50 is on a distinguished road
 
Francophile50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Concord CA
Posts: 81

2004 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
Default Re: Low mileage used Saturns

That Saturn existed and even as its own division not just a specific model of one of the other divisions is amazing within itself. In the current or I should say upcoming Market where all the American companies will only be marketing either sports cars or SUVs or trucks I wonder if the end of Saturn wouldn't have only come up but a few years later had they been included instead of excluded from GM's lineup. Would we have seen Saturn trucks to go along with the already SUVs and sports cars? Hard to say and more imagine that Saturn would fall in line with all the rest of the Clones. Saturn stood out because it was ahead of its time forward-thinking and friendly to the market as opposed to the others who we're catching up on trends, well rooted in the present, and wants to dictate what you should like not listen to what you want to get from a car company. in my own opinion Saturn will go down as one of those unique companies that was able to make a go of it for quite some time and appeals to those specialty buyers her looking for something unique and historic. I see now that some of the early model Saturns are now being considered classics. I wonder how long it will take for the world to consider that all Saturn's are classics.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Francophile50's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Francophile50 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Francophile50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Highest Mileage Saturns--looking for biggest numbers Driver Tom General Saturn Discussion 10 08-24-2017 01:22 PM
High mileage Saturns 99HCSL2 S-Series General 5 08-27-2007 03:57 PM
low mileage saturns saturnsctwo S-Series General 20 09-17-2005 10:56 AM
older low mileage Saturns kenn3d S-Series General 5 02-27-2005 07:17 PM
High mileage saturns MaliceRacing General Saturn Discussion 26 04-29-2002 10:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.