2003 Vue 3.0 - cranks but will not start

[yert37388]

Hello everyone, I have a 2003 Saturn Vue (3.0, auto, 212000 miles).

I have an issue with this car resulting in a crank but no start situation. This began a few weeks ago when the vehicle suddenly shut off while my son was driving. He was luckily able to coast to the shoulder and get it started and running long enough to get to a parking lot. We ended up trailering it home and it has not run more than a few seconds at a time since then.

My initial thought was Passlock because it will occasionally start and run a few seconds then shut off with the security light flashing. Unfortunately the flashing security light is inconsistent which led me to look further.

I though it might be the fuel pump but I can hear that running for a couple of seconds when the ignition is initially turned on.

Then after reading so many comments regarding the crank position sensor and the symptoms it gives I was sure that had to be my problem so I replaced that. Unfortunately there was no change.

Further research has let me to suspect that my worn key may be the culprit resulting in Passlock cutting off the fuel injectors. Shortly after the initial problem I had received the 14506 recall notice in the mail regarding the ignition key removal but it never dawned on me that could be my ultimate problem. Is it possible that this is the actual source of my issue?

I really hate to take this thing to the dealer for that recall only to have them 'troubleshoot' their way deep into my pocket.

I would be very appreciative of any help or advice you might offer.

Thanks, Trey in TN

[Chazberry]

Where did you get the CKP sensor?

[far2grumpy]

I've heard of an intermittent wire between ECM and engine MAIN RELAY ... a simple test is to remove MAIN RELAY (underhood fuse block) and put a jumper between sockets 30 and 87 (use relay bottom to identify).

[yert37388]

Thanks for the replies!

The sensor is an AC Delco brand that I ordered from AutoWarehouse. It did cross my mind that i could have gotten a bad one but after it didnt fix my problem I checked the old one with an ohm meter and got a reading of around 950. That is within spec based on what I have read and apparently my first one was good to begin with so now I have two.

I will try that jumper wire and see what happens.

Thanks, Trey

[yert37388]

Okay I did try the 87-30 jumper but there was no change in my situation.

In the interim I did email GM to inquire about the recall and described my issue asking if the recalled part might be my issue. I (finally) received a reply email from Buick support stating that they had decided that I should call their 800- number for support. I have not done that yet.

I guess that will be my next step (though I am less than hopeful for much support) unless anyone has any better advice/ideas.

Again, I appreciate your help.

-Trey

[Badmotorfinger]

Ordinarily I'd say based on your description that this is classic CPS failure but you seem to have eliminated that possibility. So we move on...

I'm going to make the bold assumption your timing belt hasn't jumped a tooth considering your son was able to restart and drive after the initial stall.

I'm leaning towards a fuel related issue, clogged fuel filter, failing fuel injectors, etc. something that allows just enough fuel to fire the engine before stalling. The issue is the design of the intake manifold inhibits any simple testing of spark and fuel unless you have a strong desire to spend a couple hours removing the intake.

I would try this: spray a liberal amount of starting fluid into the throttle body and see if it runs for a very short time. If it does, you have a fuel issue and I would start at the fuel filter and move forward.

If it doesn't start, I would suspect an ignition issue and plan on removing the intake.

Hope this helps.

[far2grumpy]

The fuel pump has two common fail modes - one is low fuel pressure and the other is check valve allowing fuel to bleed back into tank during key off - resulting in hard starts.

I would check fuel pressure with key off - then after cycling key on - off - on at least three times.

The 3.0 fuel injection system expects to see 50 to 60 psi for proper operation.

I've found that if I see 0 psi in a 3.5 fuel rail (bad check valve) before first key on the pressure will increase by about 15 psi after key is cycled on and off one time ... another key cycle builds to 30 psi and third gives me 45 psi which is usually good enough for a smooth start.

[Badmotorfinger]

Trey, did you ever get this figured out?
Ironically, my wife called me early this evening stuck on the side of the road. Similar symptoms as you described.
I was able to get it started with starter fluid; after a few seconds, it stalled again. I was able to start it again after leaving the key in the On position for about 10 minutes while I read the fuse section in the manual. It then stalled after about 10 seconds.
I have just checked fuses, but I'm leaning towards bad fuel pump and will be checking fuel pressure tomorrow.

[Badmotorfinger]

Just to close my loop on this thread, on a hunch I had my battery tested. Battery was bad, just over 4 years old.
Car is running now.

[yert37388]

Unfortunately I've had to back-burner this project in getting my son ready to head back to college. He just left so I'm going to start chasing the possibility of the fuel pump.

Glad you got your battery issue identified and sorted. I would never have considered that. Good info.

Thanks, Trey

[Badmotorfinger]

Thanks, and best of luck with your troubleshooting.
If you haven't already and based on my results with similar symptoms as you described, double check your battery. Until I tested it, I was convinced the fuel pump had failed and was planning on dropping the tank this weekend.

Originally Posted by yert37388

Unfortunately I've had to back-burner this project in getting my son ready to head back to college. He just left so I'm going to start chasing the possibility of the fuel pump.

Glad you got your battery issue identified and sorted. I would never have considered that. Good info.

Thanks, Trey

[M81]

Ummm..... I have the similar problem.

The car was towed in to my house by a family member and he advised me a shop replaced a fuel pump and couldn't and still had crank no start.

I plugged in to it and I'm seeing a lot of loos communication codes.

If any one has a diagram of the BCM for a 02 saturn vue 2.2 I would appreciate it.

Good luck..

[far2grumpy]

Originally Posted by M81

Ummm..... I have the similar problem.

The car was towed in to my house by a family member and he advised me a shop replaced a fuel pump and couldn't and still had crank no start.

I plugged in to it and I'm seeing a lot of loos communication codes.

If any one has a diagram of the BCM for a 02 saturn vue 2.2 I would appreciate it.

Good luck..

We are sort of hijacking a 3.0 thread ... might be better to start a new one.

However. .. to give something to think about ... i don't know of single bcm wiring diagram listing all functions as its basically broken down by systems such as door locks, security & such. Can you list a few of the codes. They'd be good place to start.

[Roerocks]

I am having a crank no start problem with my 2003 saturn vue awd v6 3.0 and this is after i changed out the alternator im at a loss I've got spark so im gonna assume im not getting any fuel i was wondering if my timing could have jumped even if i didnt remove the cover to it or touch it at all. Please help any advice would be awesome

[fdryer]

Review your repair for any mistakes and check for blown fuses. Spark is difficult to test for a visual presence as it requires removing an intake runner manifold, a coil pack and plugs then reconnecting plugs to coil pack, laying them out over the engine with spark plug bases wired to the engine block for ground to see spark on plugs as someone turns the ignition key to Start. A simpler way to test for spark and fuel would be spraying starter fluid into the throttle body. Supplying fuel manually via canned starting fluid and presuming spark is available should get the engine to startup for a few seconds. Not starting with starter fluid would imply a lack of spark.

Several starting attempts with a cold engine can result in a flooded engine. If this occurs then holding the gas pedal to the floor invokes 'clear flood mode', telling the ecm to halt injector operation while starting to allow excess fuel to blow out into the exhaust system. As cylinders ingest 100% air, plugs dry out until spark ignites the diluted air/fuel mixture resulting in a sputtering startup.

[Jsmith123]

Originally Posted by Roerocks

I am having a crank no start problem with my 2003 saturn vue awd v6 3.0 and this is after i changed out the alternator im at a loss I've got spark so im gonna assume im not getting any fuel i was wondering if my timing could have jumped even if i didnt remove the cover to it or touch it at all. Please help any advice would be awesome

That's strange. Are you 100% sure the wiring is correct on the alternator job?