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Old 04-19-2011, 01:56 PM   #41
ehunter
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Location: Pacifica by San Francisco 5sp Engine rebuild with the help of people here at 177K due to 500mi/qt oil consumption. After 2yrs I am back to 40mpg+ after discovering the refirb head I used was bad. Car runs better than a top. Now at 214k.
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1996 SL2
Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehunter View Post
This can happen if your ectc wires are being shorted out which is he opposite of having corrosion on the head of ects connector.
This cant be true because if the wires were shorting out the result would be reflected on the gauge too. Have to look elsewhere. I remember though that inside your fuse box under the hood there is a large cubed-like plugin that has to do with the running your fan. I dont know enough about it though to run through diagnostics aside from being able to apply a jumper from one pen slot to another to force test the fan. The gray cube is identified by the underside writing of the plastic cover.

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Old 04-19-2011, 02:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehunter View Post
This cant be true because if the wires were shorting out the result would be reflected on the gauge too. Have to look elsewhere. I remember though that inside your fuse box under the hood there is a large cubed-like plugin that has to do with the running your fan. I dont know enough about it though to run through diagnostics aside from being able to apply a jumper from one pen slot to another to force test the fan. The gray cube is identified by the underside writing of the plastic cover.
Actually if the ECTS wiring gets shorted, it would set a code, turn on the hot light, the gauge would be pegged at 1/2, and the fan would be on all the time. all the while you're running a VERY lean mixture.

also, you _might_ be able to run an ammeter across the pin holes in the fuse box for the relay coil, and the pin holes for the contact to check to see if electricity is going as it should. You can also pull the relay and put a 9v battery across the relay coil pins; if it clicks, then you should be able to use an ohmmeter on the contact pins to check for continuity while keeping the 9v battery across the relay coil pins. Otherwise, your relay is no good and should be R&R'd (and it _might_ set off the service wrench as well; not sure).

oh yeah, those gray cubes actually happen to be relays. they have a diagram on them to show you which pins go where.

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Old 04-19-2011, 07:16 PM   #43
SaturnFix
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=28

What are the results?

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Old 04-21-2011, 12:45 AM   #44
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Okay so here is the latest update. The idle test I did yesterday , the AC was on which is what caused the fan to run continuously. In addition I measured the volts of the EGR connector and found that it was spot on. (4.98 volts out of terminal d) After that, I pulled off the MAP sensor to test it per the Richpin video. When I backprobed the green wire terminal I was only getting 4.3 volts, and in addition, as I increased the vacuum pressure the voltage did not move and bascially stayed the same. I think that means I need a new MAP sensor. Do you agree. Also When I removed the throttle body to gain easier access to the MAP, I noticed how dirty the inside of the manifold is (thick, greasy, black residue) and also the tip of the MAP sensor was coated. How can I clean the inside? and should I try to clean the MAP before I buy a new one.( I read somewhere that you can use isopropyl alcohol to clean them?) Could a bad MAP cause the bucking, and also be causing the misfire code I keep getting and also influence the EGR?

If the MAP doesnt work, my next step i think is going to have the catalytic converter looked at, and also test the O2 sensor.

Keep in mind this is what I have done so far: new copper plugs, new spark plug wires, new air filter, cleaned and replace EGR, cleaned and replaced another junk yard EGR. Replaced the ECTS and the connection, and cleaned the throttle body.

Any advice or feedback on the above information is greatly appreciated.

...
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Previously
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:15 AM   #45
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

this is completely unrelated

but what about the PCV?

not that it would have much of effect, but they do tend to gum up.

mine was until i cleaned it. there wasn't much of a noticeable difference in idle afterwards but i saw a slight mpg increase.

might as well replace it or clean it out while you're in there.
it will help your emissions

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Old 04-21-2011, 01:16 AM   #46
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

MAP sensor voltage should decrease towards zero as more vacuum is applied. If you are reading 4.98 volts with full vacuum applied, the thing thinks your throttle is wide open all the time.
I'm not sure what you might clean it with, but I'll bet its plugged.
I'd think an electrical cleaner that fully evaporates, like CRC would be safe.

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Old 04-21-2011, 11:34 AM   #47
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
Okay so here is the latest update. The idle test I did yesterday , the AC was on which is what caused the fan to run continuously. In addition I measured the volts of the EGR connector and found that it was spot on. (4.98 volts out of terminal d) After that, I pulled off the MAP sensor to test it per the Richpin video. When I backprobed the green wire terminal I was only getting 4.3 volts, and in addition, as I increased the vacuum pressure the voltage did not move and bascially stayed the same. I think that means I need a new MAP sensor. Do you agree. Also When I removed the throttle body to gain easier access to the MAP, I noticed how dirty the inside of the manifold is (thick, greasy, black residue) and also the tip of the MAP sensor was coated. How can I clean the inside? and should I try to clean the MAP before I buy a new one.( I read somewhere that you can use isopropyl alcohol to clean them?) Could a bad MAP cause the bucking, and also be causing the misfire code I keep getting and also influence the EGR?
THe light green wire is the reference signal and it should be between 4-6 volts. The black wire is the MAP signal, 1-1.5 volts at idle, 4-4.5 volts at wide open throttle.

How about the voltage reading between terminals C and D on the EGR harness?

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Old 04-21-2011, 12:40 PM   #48
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

it was the same. 4.97 volts

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Old 04-21-2011, 01:27 PM   #49
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Try with unplugging the black plug from the PCM (the one with like 80 pins), and test the continuity to ground the brown wire at EGR plug (pin C).

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Old 04-21-2011, 03:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Well its not the map sensor. Put a new one in. same result. Im just going to buy a new egr valve and see if that does the trick

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Old 04-21-2011, 11:04 PM   #51
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I am really starting to hate this car. I bought a saturn because they were such easy cars to work on but I would do anything to get my money back. So a new MAP sensor didnt do anything, and neither did a new EGR. Between everything Ive done to try to figure this out, I am already over 300 bucks and nothing has changed. Same symptoms (hesitation, bucking, erratic idle etc) and I am no closer to figuring this out.

As a newbie to this stuff, what is process of "testing the continuity"? How do I do that?

Does anyone think that the O2 sensor is the problem, or the catalytic converter? Or if was those things would I be getting error codes from them?

Thanks for everyones help..

...
Jared
2001 SC2

Previously
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2005 Ion1

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Old 04-22-2011, 07:58 AM   #52
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Testing continuity
http://www.acmehowto.com/howto/homem...inuitytest.php

diagnosing by putting new parts on gets expensive quickly.

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Old 04-23-2011, 10:12 AM   #53
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I guess my multimeter doesnt have a continuity setting so I cant test the continuity between the egr and the pcm.

A couple of the error codes both mentioned possible vacuum problems. And also MAF and VAF sensors. I know there is a video on checking for vacuum problems. Where is the VAF and MAF on my saturn?

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Old 04-23-2011, 10:50 AM   #54
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

If your meter measures resistance, you can use it to determine continuity.

Our cars have no MAF or VAF sensor. What is a VAF sensor?

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Old 04-24-2011, 01:38 AM   #55
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
If your meter measures resistance, you can use it to determine continuity.
Right. Set it to the Rx1 scale. Touch the probes together, you should see zero ohms resistance. That's what you should see between Pin C and chassis ground.
A fraction of an ohm is OK, anything more than that and the connection is suspect.


VAF is a Vane Airflow Sensor. 80's Bosch L-Jetronic injection used them, as did some later Ford products with Bosch injection. It's spring loaded flap placed just before the throttle plate to measure airflow. I don't believe Saturn or GM has ever used them.

Last edited by radi; 04-24-2011 at 01:50 AM..

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Old 04-25-2011, 06:29 PM   #56
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

After testing continuity, everything was normal. Finally decided to bite the bullet and take it to the mechanic. They diagnosed bad coil pack and said that the misfire, egr, map codes are caused by the bad coil pack. Hopefully they are right and thats all it is... We'll see. I pick the car up in an hour or so, I hope to give the final update when I see if works..... (fingers crossed)

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