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Old 04-15-2011, 12:17 AM   #21
radi
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

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Will I damage the car in any way if I keep the EGR unplugged?
Nope. More than a few are running around with quarters underneath the EGR to block the passages.
Might be a problem if you live in a state that requires emissions testing.

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Old 04-15-2011, 10:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I live in Nevada and we have emissions testing. I am going to buy a new EGR but I wanted to make sure that I wasnt doing damage by driving with it disconnected. Does anyone know if I can use an EGR from an S series sedan for my SC2? Im going to the junk yard to see if I can find one before I pay 137 dollars for the new one, and the yard has lots of SLs but not as many SCs..

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Old 04-15-2011, 06:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

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Will I damage the car in any way if I keep the EGR unplugged?
It is mostly for emission control, but also for cooling the engine under some conditions. If the engine burns too hot, breaks pistons and valves. Not all that unlikely with a Saturn engine in the summer.

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Old 04-16-2011, 02:39 PM   #24
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could it be anything ezcept the egr? I went to my local salvage yard and picked up 2 egr valves in fairly good condition. I cleaned both of them and tested each of them. They all reponded with bucking an a jerking, but the car ran good when I unplugged them and they ran fine when I blocked the holeswith a gasket made from a aluminum can. Could it be the wires or something else. What its the chance that 3egr valves all did not work?

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Old 04-17-2011, 12:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

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What its the chance that 3egr valves all did not work?
It sounds more like something is commanding the EGR to open when it should not. I assume the ECM controls the EGR, but don't know which other sensors might be involved for it to make the decision. That's beyond my level of knowledge with the Saturns.

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Old 04-17-2011, 10:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

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Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
So heres one for you. after cleaning the egr and replacing the plugs with copper, and the plug wires, i reset the SES signal and drove to work. At first it was great, but soon, just as before, after about 20 minutes and 20 miles the car started bucking again and acting like before and the SES light came back on.
The next step is to go back to Autozone and rescan those new codes

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Old 04-17-2011, 02:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Just got the codes read again. And they are all the same. Still the misfire code, the egr code, and the map sensor code. Can anyone tell me where the map sensor is located on a 2001 sc2. it is different than the ones in the richpin videos and diagrams I have seen. thanks again......

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Old 04-17-2011, 02:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Nevermind the MAP sensor code for now (it is probably tripped by a domino effect).

It is too bad you don't have a scan tool. Do you have a multimeter? Ignition on, engine off, unplug the EGR, facing the end of the connector with the clip on top, the 4th terminal should be around 5 volts.

Also, the voltage between the 3rd and 4th terminal should be around 5 volts.

On those 2000-2001 Saturns there was an issue: "instrument panel (I/P) wire harness coming into contact with a left side I/P bracket at the left side footwell area. Between the rosebud clip and the I/P connector, the harness may come into contact with the left side I/P bracket. Chafing the wiring harness may cause a short to ground"

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Old 04-17-2011, 08:02 PM   #29
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I have a volt meter. Should I test the egr using paper clips on the holes the same way as if I were testing the map sensor?

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Old 04-18-2011, 01:43 AM   #30
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I have another question that I was hoping someone could help me identify. While doing some work and more troubleshooting, I noticed a sensor and plug that has been broken so it wasnt connected. Just behind my battery, there is metal blade about an inch thick and the same height and length as the battery. Just below this there is a sensor a little smaller than a dime with two prongs sticking straight up. The housing and plug had been broken off. I stuck it back on and temporarily wrapped it with electrical tape to keel it attched till i get a new one. Any ideas on what it is?

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:00 AM   #31
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnFix View Post
On those 2000-2001 Saturns there was an issue: "instrument panel (I/P) wire harness coming into contact with a left side I/P bracket at the left side footwell area. Between the rosebud clip and the I/P connector, the harness may come into contact with the left side I/P bracket. Chafing the wiring harness may cause a short to ground"
Interesting - could very well be electrical

The PCM uses TPS (throttle position), ECTS, MAP, IATP sensors to control the EGR

DTC P0405 Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Position Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
DTC P0108 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit High Voltage

3rd gen MAP location, courtesy of Low Saturn

Original link to photo
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2000-02 MAP.jpg (76.6 KB, 8 views)

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #32
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Thanks. I think that it must be something electrical so now my troublshooting is a little more clear. Also the part that I mentioned in the post above I have since found out is the PCM. I guess in the 2000-2002 s series cars the PCM is right behind the battery.

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Old 04-18-2011, 10:33 AM   #33
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I am wondering whether the ECTS is working properly.

Once the engine warms to a certain level is when the problems start. Suppose there was no response from the ECTS and the PCM thinks the engine was still cold even after 20 minutes of use. I could understand why it would run poorly.

Can you tell us how the temperature gauge behaves if the car just idles in the drive way for 20-30 minutes? Does the cooling fan in front of the radiator ever come on around 20-30minutes? If so at what gauge reading does the fan kick on?

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Old 04-18-2011, 11:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

just replaced the ects and tomorrow morning ill start it up and let is run for 20 minutes to see what happens and ill let you know what I found out.

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Old 04-18-2011, 11:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Can anyone tell me what this is? It was broken off. I found a new one at the junk yard but I want to know what it is first?

http://www.youtube.com/user/jbjones1.../0/tTuDo29PNos

Also, while I have been looking for elecrical problems I wanted to see if anyone knew what these items are. This first is a video is with the panel on the second is with the panel down.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jbjones1.../0/ujatWVLmPyw

http://www.youtube.com/user/jbjones1.../0/xEVHTm4jWcA


As always thanks again.

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Old 04-18-2011, 11:57 PM   #36
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

The "blade" you refer to a few posts up is the PCM.

The part in the first video, if it's the last thing you pointed at in the video, that's the reverse light switch.

Anybody's guess what the aftermarket stuff is in the other two videos. It was rather badly done (wire nuts, crimp connectors, etc.). You'd have to follow where the wires go to know what the previous owner was up to (or call her/him, I suppose).

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Old 04-19-2011, 01:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I have the same problem with my 2002 SC2, however my transmission is going out. My aunt had a SOHC but it blew up because of the poor engine design, so I have a DOHC in here now. The transmission always acted funny, but I was also thinking it could be the torque converter because it slips in 3rd gear and sometimes it takes a while to shift up or down. It also slams hard shifting lots of times, but I'm personally just waiting for the whole transmission to break. My car is still drivable, so when it becomes to the point of not working, I'll just go to a junkyard and swap it for around $1000 give or take. This may be completely unrelated to your problem, but this is just my experience with my Saturn. Both being SC2, it could be related, but I can't say for sure. I'm no mechanic.

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Old 04-19-2011, 10:20 AM   #38
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

So this morning I started the car. Upon start, the engine jumped to 1200 rpms for the first 3-5 minutes as the needle climbed to about 2 needle lengths left of the first mark. The needle stayed right there for the next 20 minutes without change, although the rpm did drop to 1100 after the first couple minutes. The engine fan was engaged and running the whole time. Granted I did switch out the ECTS last night so if it was a problem witht the ects maybe its fixed and my problems are over. (fingers crossed). We'll see how everthing runs after driving a little today. Usually when I drive (even before i switched out the ects) the engine temp needle stayed right around one needle width above the first mark.

I dont think its the transmission. I don't have any issue gears or shifting.

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Old 04-19-2011, 11:22 AM   #39
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

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So this morning I started the car. Upon start, the engine jumped to 1200 rpms for the first 3-5 minutes as the needle climbed to about 2 needle lengths left of the first mark. The needle stayed right there for the next 20 minutes without change, although the rpm did drop to 1100 after the first couple minutes. The engine fan was engaged and running the whole time. Granted I did switch out the ECTS last night so if it was a problem witht the ects maybe its fixed and my problems are over. (fingers crossed). We'll see how everthing runs after driving a little today. Usually when I drive (even before i switched out the ects) the engine temp needle stayed right around one needle width above the first mark.

I dont think its the transmission. I don't have any issue gears or shifting.
When the fan ran "all the time", did you either:

1. have the A/C on (if equipped)
and/or 2. have the SES+hot lights on all the time

?

if the former, that's normal for the A/C; if the latter, that means your ECTS connector should also be inspected then replaced/cleaned as necessary. it's NOT normal for the fan to run all the time unless the A/C is on. If you had the SES+Hot light on before you swapped the ECTS (highly unlikely for whatever reason ) then you should pull the PCM-B fuse for a couple minutes to clear the code.

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Old 04-19-2011, 12:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

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The engine fan was engaged and running the whole time. Granted I did switch out the ECTS last night so if it was a problem witht the ects maybe its fixed and my problems are over. (fingers crossed). We'll see how everthing runs after driving a little today. Usually when I drive (even before i switched out the ects) the engine temp needle stayed right around one needle width above the first mark.

I dont think its the transmission. I don't have any issue gears or shifting.
It sounds like your temp gauge is hovering at the right area, but I dont think your fan should be on the whole time. This means your computer is being told your temp coolant has reached 222 degrees or higher.

This can happen if your ectc wires are being shorted out which is he opposite of having corrosion on the head of ects connector.

A) Just for the sake of being thorough, look at the head of the ects connector and make sure there is no turquoise colored corrosion in the connectors holes where the pins go.

B) Then, look/trace down the length of these same wires to see if they have been cut/spliced in anyway. If so, validate the cut/splice is soldered. Solder them if they they not been.

If both A and B look good I would get a volt meter out and check the wires for a short somewhere as the lines make its way to the PCM. Let me know if you are not sure how to do this.

You did not have the AC on when you did the idle right?


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