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Old 04-12-2011, 07:26 PM   #1
jbjones1
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Default New (used) sc2 issues

I have had a 99 sl1 and a 2005 ion2 in the past, both cars that i loved. I recently sold my 05 ion to buy an older saturn with about the same miles. I found a 2001 SC2 with just under 97000 miles and paid 2000 for it. I thought I was getting a great deal because it seemed to be in great shape. Anyway, I am having some issues. When I start it, it runs fine for about 20 minutes then starts acting up. When I am driving, if I don't have my foot on the gas pedal, the car starts shuttering violently. It is like what happens if youre not driving fast enough for the gear that youre in. The only remedy is either accelerate, or push in the clutch or put it in neutral. When I am stopped and idling, the car idles very low almost to the point of dying, and then revs high to between 1700 and 2000 rpms, then repeats over and over again, and sometimes it does actually die. The "service engine soon" light will be on sometimes, and sometimes it will be off. Any ideas on what the problem might be. I appreciate any ideas as all of the places here want to charge me 90 bucks to run diagnostics... Oh yeah, I think that its normal but when I am done driving there is a prominant tinking sound I think in the exhast system? Normal or not? Thanks again

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Old 04-12-2011, 07:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Most auto parts stores (around here at least) will retrieve the codes for free.

The exhaust tinking is normal (it's stainless steel), but there are exceptions, like loud cracks.

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Old 04-12-2011, 07:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Dont know about the oil economy yet. ive only had it for a few days. And im in las vegas so a long way away from wisconsin. I found another thread that sound like it may have been the same problem i am experiencing and the answer was replacing the "egr valve". the only problem is I dont know what that is.. any suggestions?

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Old 04-12-2011, 07:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I stuck open EGR can cause your symptoms. It recirculates exhaust gas back into the running engine.

My advice to you though is to still go and get the codes that are illuminating that SES light.

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Old 04-13-2011, 12:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
Dont know about the oil economy yet. ive only had it for a few days. And im in las vegas so a long way away from wisconsin. I found another thread that sound like it may have been the same problem i am experiencing and the answer was replacing the "egr valve". the only problem is I dont know what that is.. any suggestions?
As long as you're not in smog nazi capital of the world, Calibfornia, you should be able to go to your FLAPS and pull codes.

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Old 04-13-2011, 12:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Let me translate: FLAPS would be "favourite local auto parts store"
Of course, on any Saturn new to you would be the ECTS or electric coolant temp sensor, which should be brass. On this forum is the "How To" segment and you can study up on the ECTS and the EGR Valve. Both a very simple DIY items that can have a big impact on driveability.
Once you get your codes read by your FLAPS, please post them up and then the members can help you out.
Sounds like a nice deal on a fairly fun car, I bought a 97 SC2 a number of years back from a guy who "didn't check his oil"... put a motor in it and ran it up and down I -5 for a couple years and then sold it for $2,100. Other than oil changes and a new radiator, I ran almost 40k on it and didn't put any other $ in that one.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
i am experiencing and the answer was replacing the "egr valve". the only problem is I dont know what that is.. any suggestions?
The first sticky thread in this forum will have some links for you, including a link to richpin's videos on YouTube. There is one for cleaning the EGR, pretty sure it shows the location, too.

On a "new to you" car, it is a good idea to clean it anyway, but you can check it by temporarily plugging the holes (couple of coins, piece from a can of pop or other metal) and seeing if there is a change in the engine.

edit: You can see where the EGR is right above the ECTS (kind of hidden behind the black intake snorkel from the driver's side) in this picture
http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...ser-29/cat/all

Can also see it in this diagram - it is visible from the top of the engine area, kind of between the cam cover, battery, and throttle body.
http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...ations/cat/all

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Old 04-13-2011, 02:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

I had auto zone get the codes that were causing the"service engine soon" to be displayed. They are: p0300, p0405, and p0108. I haven't tried making a blocking gasket to test the egr valve, but I did unplug it, and it immediately took the jerking away and it idled perfectly. Given the new info, any new suggestions? Thanks again.you've all mgm very helpful.

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Old 04-13-2011, 02:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Uh oh, sounds like someone has platinum spark plugs

Not really. This could be something as simple as water in the fuel.

If I was in your shoes though, I'd probably glance at the spark plugs and wires. (Gotta replace those darn NGKs every 30k, bummer )

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Old 04-13-2011, 03:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
I haven't tried making a blocking gasket to test the egr valve, but I did unplug it, and it immediately took the jerking away and it idled perfectly. Given the new info, any new suggestions?
Clean the EGR per the video. Also found a how to for the EGR in the How To Library as well.

with the engine warm and the EGR off, start the car and run for a second to blow out the carbon (car will immediately rev up to 4k rpm)

Do a search on your codes in the How to library
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/for...sprune=-1&f=26

Should bring you both what they mean and how to fix them. Pulling the PCM-B fuse in the UHJB (the power block by the battery) will clear the codes - after fixing, you can see what comes back.

The P0300 could be other symptoms causing the sensors to detect a knock (or could very well be a certain brand of platinum spark plugs)

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Old 04-13-2011, 04:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

What its the deal with the platinum plugs. Should I not use them? I'm pretyy sure that's what is in there now. And I thinks I remember the seller saying that he had just replaced them.

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Old 04-13-2011, 11:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Okay. I have removed the egr valve and cleaned it according to the richpin video. In addition, I read through all the platinum spark plug posts and have taken the collective advice of all the posters and purchased new plugs (Champion Copper Plus). The three people at Autozone all told me that the original plugs were double platinum and that is what i should put back in. Finally one of them told me that he thought I was just being cheap, and was making stuff up so i didn't feel embarrased about getting the cheap ones... so i hope you are all right. Im putting them in in the morning....

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Old 04-14-2011, 12:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
Okay. I have removed the egr valve and cleaned it according to the richpin video. In addition, I read through all the platinum spark plug posts and have taken the collective advice of all the posters and purchased new plugs (Champion Copper Plus). The three people at Autozone all told me that the original plugs were double platinum and that is what i should put back in. Finally one of them told me that he thought I was just being cheap, and was making stuff up so i didn't feel embarrased about getting the cheap ones... so i hope you are all right. Im putting them in in the morning....
UGH!! You just reminded me why I DON'T frequent auto zone anymore.

in any case, I'd RUN and not walk from them. Unless the car came from Canada (which the jury's still out on that one), OEM was a copper plug, either AC-Delco or NGK.

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Old 04-14-2011, 12:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Leave it to the wiperblade jockeys at Autozone to argue over sparkplugs. I can't imagine something like that.
Oh wait.........

The P0108, IIRC is a MAP sensor code. Might take a look at yours, sometimes the TB passage that feeds it clogs.

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Old 04-14-2011, 10:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Switched the plugs out. The one that I took out were Bosch Copper Super Plus plugs. I've heard Bosch plugs are crap, but could they lead to the same issues I was having even though they weren't platinum. In addition, when I pulled them out, there was a small amount of oil on the threads. Is that supposed to be there?

Lastly, what is the TB passage? Thanks again

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Old 04-14-2011, 11:21 AM   #16
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

If you follow the black plastic intake tube up from the air filter box, it clamps onto the throttle body (#3 in the pic). Since this car is new to you, check out the richpin video on removing and cleaning the throttle body from the back.

When you remove it, you will see that the intake manifold (#2 - should be a dull aluminum color - btw, not my pic, think that is rc1488's car). After being disgusted at how much oily gunk is on the back of your throttle body, you will see similar oily gunk in the intake.

radi is talking about the MAP sensor (#3) which sits on the intake. Carefully remove it from the manifold and spray some carb cleaner down the hole in the manifold. Some people also put carb cleaner on a Q-tip and stick that into the hole as well.

Shouldn't be any oil on the threads (all the plugs had oil, or just one?) but since this car is new to you, I wouldn't panic yet. Was the oil just on the threads, or was there oil over the hex part as well? With the plug in, but the wirre off, see if you can roll up a paper towel and slide in in around the spark plug well for any oil (an unbent paper clip, long narrow screwdriver, etc may help push it down). If there is enough oil in the well (from the cam cover gasket), it may have gotten on the threads when removing the plugs.
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File Type: jpg dohc engine.jpg (62.0 KB, 21 views)

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Old 04-14-2011, 11:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Maybe its just mine, but none of the videos or diagrams seem to the be the same as my car. Is a 2001 different? The air intake tube doesnt plug into the side of the of the throttle body, but instead there is a 90 degree turn and it attaches down. I can't see any kind of manifold at all and Im confused as to why engine looks different then the others.

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Old 04-14-2011, 11:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjones1 View Post
Maybe its just mine, but none of the videos or diagrams seem to the be the same as my car. Is a 2001 different? The air intake tube doesnt plug into the side of the of the throttle body, but instead there is a 90 degree turn and it attaches down. I can't see any kind of manifold at all and Im confused as to why engine looks different then the others.
yep, 3rd gen engines (for whatever reason) have the TB halfway across the manifold and the intake is at a 90 degree bend.

...just curious, is the TB R&R any more or less difficult this way?

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Old 04-14-2011, 11:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

So heres one for you. after cleaning the egr and replacing the plugs with copper, and the plug wires, i reset the SES signal and drove to work. At first it was great, but soon, just as before, after about 20 minutes and 20 miles the car started bucking again and acting like before and the SES light came back on. After work, I had to fill up, so I did so and added a bottle of gumout regain to see if it helps (I am only averaging about 21 mpg). After filling up I pulled the plug out of the top of the EGR valve to driven home and avoid the jerking. I drove without any problems and it was smooth, and in addition the SES light turned off and remained off all the way home? Will I damage the car in any way if I keep the EGR unplugged?

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Old 04-14-2011, 11:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: New (used) sc2 issues

Then you may need a new EGR. surprising that the SES goes away, considering lack of EGR is grounds to turn it on...

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