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Old 10-29-2006, 04:20 PM   #41
cdp326
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpilot
That's why I have a cell phone.. I never have understood why someone would pay $16/month for that worthless service. Don't lock your keys in your car, watch your gas gauge and keep your cell phone with you for any emergencies.
You could also say "And don't let your car get stolen" but that's not always in your control either. Who's to say that that cell phone will always be easily accessible in an emergency?

Quote:
True, but that's only valuable if you frequently have people in the backseat who have different musical tastes than the driver. It's certainly not a general advantage for the average person.
I guess the average person always likes the same music?

Quote:
How often do you load up more than 5 people for a long trip? It could certainly be valuable to a few people with large families that travel a lot, but certainly not a general advantage for the average person.
Obviously you have no firsthand experience of any size family and the versatility of a minivan/SUV.


Personally, I think the pricing is high but is in line with the market. Yeah, it'll top $40k and then some, but there are a lot of features for that. There are several features like the memory seats, rear skylights, mirror mounted signals, etc. that are things never seen in a Saturn before. Some things, like the 2nd row captains chairs, are things that you don't see on other crossover SUVs. A lot of the features on the options list aren't available on the Pilot at all.
If you go heavy on the options the price adds up, but the prices for some of these options are high anyway. ($2k for navigation? ) There will be buyers for this. A simple Outlook XR FWD with the Convenience package is pretty comparably equipped and priced to other vehicles it'll be cross shopped against, like the Sienna and Pilot. So yes, I do think it's on the high side, but I can only fault GM/Saturn from a personal standpoint, and not a market position.

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Old 10-30-2006, 11:53 AM   #42
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Is it not realistic to think that once you begin looking at an SUV of this size as a personnel carrier (ie. 4-5 people) you also begin to consider the capabilities of the minivan?

I'm not entirely sure why you would not consider it. I know I was considered all options of carrying a large amount of items (people and stuff). I'm not sure that even in it's best configuration the Outlook can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood but the T&C can with the seats folded down.

Is it unrealistic to expect that those who would consider the Outlook would also be considering a minivan?

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Old 10-30-2006, 12:39 PM   #43
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTS
Is it not realistic to think that once you begin looking at an SUV of this size as a personnel carrier (ie. 4-5 people) you also begin to consider the capabilities of the minivan?

I'm not entirely sure why you would not consider it. I know I was considered all options of carrying a large amount of items (people and stuff). I'm not sure that even in it's best configuration the Outlook can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood but the T&C can with the seats folded down.

Is it unrealistic to expect that those who would consider the Outlook would also be considering a minivan?
Hardly; in fact it's unrealistic to think it would not be cross-shopped. This is one of the things that crossovers offer to people--the minivan versatility without the minivan image. It's not so much people dislike minivans--it's the image with them. Yes, there are smaller crossovers/SUVs, but people want to drive big cars; why else did the typical size of the minivan jump more than two feet in size in two decades? Once upon a time, minivans were the size of a midsize car, which were themselves the size of today's compacts. Both got larger, but midsize cars grew to only a bit over a foot longer while minivans are larger than many full size sedans now.
Yes, crossovers like the Outlook can be, will be, and are cross-shopped with minivans. Chrysler's Pacifica is often put against the Town and Country and Ford's Freestyle crossover is put against the Freestar minivan. The T&C is overall a better people/cargo carrier than the Pacifica but it doesn't look as cool; the Ford Freestyle is a better, more convenient cargo and people carrier than the Freestar, outclassing it in virtually every category. While crossovers of this size have less overall cargo room inside (the blame which is likely towards the higher load floor resulting in a shorter interior cargo floor height), they are still comparable.

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Old 10-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

I wonder if any U.S. Saturn fans have noticed the total and complete silence from any Canadian. Just to update you, prices have not been announced in Canada. For that matter, I called one of the local Saturn dealers and it quickly became obvious that I knew considerably more about the Outlook than he did. In fact, he (the dealer) didn't even know that the prices had been announced in the U.S. I suppose there may be some reluctance by Saturn Canada to announce prices because they know we (potential Canadian buyers) are now looking at the U.S. prices and they don't want us to suffer cardiac arrest when we finally see the Canadian prices. As we all know in Canada, the base price is going to be at least 2-3 K more than it is in the U.S. and it only goes up from there. As I said yea these many weeks ago, an all up XR is going to go for over 50K in Canada. Too bad we are not allowed to by our cars in the U.S. Oh we can buy them in the U.S. but no Canadain dealer will honour the warranty. Gotcha.

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Old 10-30-2006, 04:27 PM   #45
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTS
Is it not realistic to think that once you begin looking at an SUV of this size as a personnel carrier (ie. 4-5 people) you also begin to consider the capabilities of the minivan?

I'm not entirely sure why you would not consider it. I know I was considered all options of carrying a large amount of items (people and stuff). I'm not sure that even in it's best configuration the Outlook can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood but the T&C can with the seats folded down.

Is it unrealistic to expect that those who would consider the Outlook would also be considering a minivan?
My wife wants a minivan, and I have been holding out for the Outlook as a good alternative. I really cannot stomach a minivan. Yes, I know the Outlook is basically a minivan, but it has better doors (In my opinion), and frankly I think most minivans on the market a pretty crappy.

You should also note that the next generation of GM's minivans will be built on the same platform as the Outlook and be built at the same plant.

Frankly, I wish they were selling a Chevy version instead of a GMC and offered it with less content, for less money. That would be more my style. The Outlook is too loaded for my taste. Shoot, my current pickup is 2wd, has roll up windows and no power locks.

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Old 10-30-2006, 05:24 PM   #46
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I wonder if any U.S. Saturn fans have noticed the total and complete silence from any Canadian. Just to update you, prices have not been announced in Canada. For that matter, I called one of the local Saturn dealers and it quickly became obvious that I knew considerably more about the Outlook than he did. In fact, he (the dealer) didn't even know that the prices had been announced in the U.S. I suppose there may be some reluctance by Saturn Canada to announce prices because they know we (potential Canadian buyers) are now looking at the U.S. prices and they don't want us to suffer cardiac arrest when we finally see the Canadian prices. As we all know in Canada, the base price is going to be at least 2-3 K more than it is in the U.S. and it only goes up from there. As I said yea these many weeks ago, an all up XR is going to go for over 50K in Canada. Too bad we are not allowed to by our cars in the U.S. Oh we can buy them in the U.S. but no Canadain dealer will honour the warranty. Gotcha.
Just another reason to live in a 1st world country.

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Old 10-31-2006, 12:56 PM   #47
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

In what way does your comment re: "living in a 1st world country" apply to the purpose of this forum.

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Old 10-31-2006, 06:26 PM   #48
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

The base price isn't really too awful bad. But yeah, that's a pretty high price once you start throwing on options. I believe that it is pretty much the same price for a Lexus 330 with the same options... pretty sure.

What are you getting with the XR that you're not with the XE?

Same engine we know. Duel exhaust (looks value only). The price sheet shows that the six-way power driver's seat and roof rails are standard with the XR - what else?

Let's look at the real world - I really don't see someone walking into a Saturn dealership and plopping down 32 to 40K (out the door) for a new Outlook. I think Saturn needs to package some of the options together in groups, offering a discount on them.

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Old 10-31-2006, 06:58 PM   #49
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1
The base price isn't really too awful bad. But yeah, that's a pretty high price once you start throwing on options. I believe that it is pretty much the same price for a Lexus 330 with the same options... pretty sure.

What are you getting with the XR that you're not with the XE?

Same engine we know. Duel exhaust (looks value only). The price sheet shows that the six-way power driver's seat and roof rails are standard with the XR - what else?

Let's look at the real world - I really don't see someone walking into a Saturn dealership and plopping down 32 to 40K (out the door) for a new Outlook. I think Saturn needs to package some of the options together in groups, offering a discount on them.
The following are the features available on the base XR vs. base XE for the $2,173 difference (invoice price).

Variable effort Power Steering
Dual Zone Auto A/C
Dual Exhaust
Programmable Door locks
Trip Computer
Inside Dimming Mirror w/Compass
Enhanced Driver Information Center
8 way power drivers seat
Leather Steering Wheel
Steering Wheel Audio Controls
Wood Grain Decor
Homelink
Fog lights
Body color Mirrors w/turn signals
Body Color Bodyside moldings
Luggage Rack Side Rails
..and the ability to add other options no available to the XE

The dual exhaust gets you 5 more HP and 3 more ftlbs Torque.

They are packaging options in groups: (PDC, PCZ, V92, PCU, U2R, U3R, PDD, PCM, PCQ) while only a few others are available separately (TVD, K05, C3U).

Now you know the facts..............

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Old 10-31-2006, 07:22 PM   #50
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Njerald
The following are the features available on the base XR vs. base XE for the $2,173 difference (invoice price).

Variable effort Power Steering
Dual Zone Auto A/C
Dual Exhaust
Programmable Door locks
Trip Computer
Inside Dimming Mirror w/Compass
Enhanced Driver Information Center
8 way power drivers seat
Leather Steering Wheel
Steering Wheel Audio Controls
Wood Grain Decor
Homelink
Fog lights
Body color Mirrors w/turn signals
Body Color Bodyside moldings
Luggage Rack Side Rails
..and the ability to add other options no available to the XE

The dual exhaust gets you 5 more HP and 3 more ftlbs Torque.

They are packaging options in groups: (PDC, PCZ, V92, PCU, U2R, U3R, PDD, PCM, PCQ) while only a few others are available separately (TVD, K05, C3U).

Now you know the facts..............
Left out the Machined Alloy Wheels!!!

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Old 10-31-2006, 08:10 PM   #51
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Happy Re: outlook prices announced

It seems to me that the "base" XR includes just about everything one needs (excepting those with young children that perhaps would want the DVD option) so are we not really talking $32,290 (perhaps $35.5 in Canada) for a very well equipped AWD vehicle. Even at MSRP (and surely the dealers will come down a little from this amount) this is one he-- of a deal IMO.

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Old 10-31-2006, 08:59 PM   #52
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I wonder if any U.S. Saturn fans have noticed the total and complete silence from any Canadian. Just to update you, prices have not been announced in Canada. For that matter, I called one of the local Saturn dealers and it quickly became obvious that I knew considerably more about the Outlook than he did. In fact, he (the dealer) didn't even know that the prices had been announced in the U.S. I suppose there may be some reluctance by Saturn Canada to announce prices because they know we (potential Canadian buyers) are now looking at the U.S. prices and they don't want us to suffer cardiac arrest when we finally see the Canadian prices. As we all know in Canada, the base price is going to be at least 2-3 K more than it is in the U.S. and it only goes up from there. As I said yea these many weeks ago, an all up XR is going to go for over 50K in Canada. Too bad we are not allowed to by our cars in the U.S. Oh we can buy them in the U.S. but no Canadain dealer will honour the warranty. Gotcha.
More GM bureaucracy.....isn't that convenent! The car is built the U.S. and is sold in both Canada and the US yet they can't have the same warranty? I can assure you it has everything to do with cross-border shopping and fleecing Canadian buyers. All I can say is if the Canadian Outlook is pricing above the 12% present currency exchange, count me out. So long as buyers tolerate it, GM will tack on the present 30% exchange differential. I'll look elsewhere thanks.

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Old 11-01-2006, 10:03 AM   #53
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertburns3
My wife wants a minivan, and I have been holding out for the Outlook as a good alternative. I really cannot stomach a minivan. Yes, I know the Outlook is basically a minivan, but it has better doors (In my opinion), and frankly I think most minivans on the market a pretty crappy.

You should also note that the next generation of GM's minivans will be built on the same platform as the Outlook and be built at the same plant.

Frankly, I wish they were selling a Chevy version instead of a GMC and offered it with less content, for less money. That would be more my style. The Outlook is too loaded for my taste. Shoot, my current pickup is 2wd, has roll up windows and no power locks.
Well, I was really not a fan of the minivan either but I could not argue with the logic. Simply put I spent less, got better gas mileage and better cargo. If I have to live with the minivan stigma so be it. I think the T&C is fantastic and I love driving it (something I wasn't sure I would like initially).

I think the issue you are going to find is that as the majority of people begin to demand power equipment options you will have less options available to you. Sooner or later it will cost you more just to get no power options because the market demands power.

I'm not sure what you mean by better doors, that's a confusing statement.. can you clarify?

In reality I think calling my T&C Touring a minivan is really a misnomer. As was stated eariler, it holds a 4x8 sheet of plywood. It's a van, pure and simple. Anything model of car that has a LWB and SWB option should also mean that if you have the LWB, as I do, it can't be called MINI. So I have a van, not a minivan. I suppose I should be happier with Minivan then the potential "maxivan" term.

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Old 11-05-2006, 09:23 AM   #54
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrealvue
More GM bureaucracy.....isn't that convenent! The car is built the U.S. and is sold in both Canada and the US yet they can't have the same warranty? I can assure you it has everything to do with cross-border shopping and fleecing Canadian buyers. All I can say is if the Canadian Outlook is pricing above the 12% present currency exchange, count me out. So long as buyers tolerate it, GM will tack on the present 30% exchange differential. I'll look elsewhere thanks.
From what I've heard the pricing of Canadian market vehicles has been higher than the exchanged+tax cost of the US version of the same vehicle, and this is something that all manufacturers do, not just GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTS
Well, I was really not a fan of the minivan either but I could not argue with the logic. Simply put I spent less, got better gas mileage and better cargo. If I have to live with the minivan stigma so be it. I think the T&C is fantastic and I love driving it (something I wasn't sure I would like initially).

I think the issue you are going to find is that as the majority of people begin to demand power equipment options you will have less options available to you. Sooner or later it will cost you more just to get no power options because the market demands power.

I'm not sure what you mean by better doors, that's a confusing statement.. can you clarify?

In reality I think calling my T&C Touring a minivan is really a misnomer. As was stated eariler, it holds a 4x8 sheet of plywood. It's a van, pure and simple. Anything model of car that has a LWB and SWB option should also mean that if you have the LWB, as I do, it can't be called MINI. So I have a van, not a minivan. I suppose I should be happier with Minivan then the potential "maxivan" term.
Like I said, the original Chrysler vans were about the size of an S-Series...the later extended wheelbase models that are overshadowing smaller models were a few inches longer than a typical midsize car.
I think by doors he may mean he doesn't like sliding doors.
The gas mileage between the T&C and the Outlook probably won't be all that different. The Outlook is heavier but has more power and two more gears. EPA estimates show them being pretty similar.
What options did you get on the T&C?

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Old 11-05-2006, 12:59 PM   #55
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Default Re: outlook prices announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
It seems to me that the "base" XR includes just about everything one needs (excepting those with young children that perhaps would want the DVD option) so are we not really talking $32,290 (perhaps $35.5 in Canada) for a very well equipped AWD vehicle. Even at MSRP (and surely the dealers will come down a little from this amount) this is one he-- of a deal IMO.
If as a buyer you only have 2 young kids, that may be so, but if you have 3, if means you also need the captain's chairs in the second row which run $495 (it's too much of a pain to remove child seats to tumble the second row to get access to the 3rd row & keep in mind that child seat laws in many states now require child seats until the kids are 7, 8 or in some states even 9 years old.) In order to get the captain's chairs, you also need to add leather, which is another $1275.

That brings the price up to over 34K. Also, perhaps Iím being paranoid, but I think the ultrasonic parking thing sure would be nice (when I had a Tahoe I backed straight into one of those concrete pylons in a parking lot that was shorter than the rear window & not visible in the rear view mirror. That was an expensive pain in the neck, but imagine if it had been a kidÖ). As I understand it, the parking assist is only available with the Convenience package, which tacks another $1045 to the price. You are now up to over 35K. I know GM is trying to create a paradigm shift here, but closer to $40K than 30K for a Saturn? Really?

As I have said, the vehicle looks great (I like the looks of it better than even the Acura), and I hope it is a success. I just canít reconcile myself to the pricing. Iím really trying to put off a vehicle purchase long enough to let the Outlook get to town. As soon as it does, Iíll test drive it against the Odyssey and Sienna AWD (with three young kids I need the minivan space, but sure would like to avoid it if I can.) If the Outlook has refinement, handling and NVH levels up to the standards of the minivans, I might be able to talk myself into the pricing structure. If not, Iíll probably wind up with a minivan or I might have to go farther up market.

Any updates on availability?

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