Suzuki's VUE

[TPFilm]

From autoblog.com:



"Here’s a lightly disguised version of the next Suzuki Vitara SUV, based from the Chevy Equinox. I was glad to see the C-pillar was well differentiated from the Equinox/Torrent twins, but it is obvious that it is a family member (not as bad as the exact-copy Isuzu trucks, but we’ll touch on that later). The truck sat well and gave off a “premium” vibe."



"We know their new SUV will be built off the Equinox platform and be assembled alongside the Chevy SUV in Canada, where the Tracker and Sidekick/Vitara shared an assembly line."
All quotes are by Walter J. Keegan

[D C]

You're quoting conflicting sources! If the earlier report is correct, there are TWO Suzuki SUV variants. One, the Escudo, is based on the old Vitara. The second is supposedly an Equinox relative. Haven't seen anything that says which, if any, are US-bound.

[webxfx]

sweet - a JDM version

[TPFilm]

The photo of the X2 concept will be the next Vitara. The SUV will be built in Canada on the same line as the Equinox (just like the Tracker/Vitara of old.) The Escudo is the Japanese version of the X2/Equinox. All it takes is to look at the pictures and you can tell they are the same (Escudo & X2.)

I understand that there is conflicting information. Maybe something got lost in the translation. Maybe Suzuki has been building a domestic version of the VUE-Quinox? All I know is, the X2 is the Escudo is the next Vitara. The pictures speak for themsleve. You can't tell me that Suzuki would develop the Escudo/X2 on an entirely different platform, and have it look almost exactly like the VUE.

Side Note: last June I worked on a series of commercials for the Suzuki small cars (they are called "rolling shots" for dealers & Suzuki to use in advertising.) The Suzuki rep on set and I had very lengthy discussions about the Vitara/ XL7 replacement. She said that the new Vitara would be based on an existing GM platform. She wouldn't give me GM model name, but said that Suzuki had already begun working on their version of it. She implied that the XL7 would get bigger, possibly Trailblazer size (makes sense if the Suzuki version of the VUE can look that good, imagine how good they can do with the Trailblazer!) One thiing she did say, was that GM was pretty much staying out of the design process. Basicly letting Suzuki do what they needed to. Obviously, building it in the same plact as the 'Nox and the Torrent will require staying somewhat true to the original design.

[TPFilm]

Originally Posted by D C

You're quoting conflicting sources! If the earlier report is correct, there are TWO Suzuki SUV variants. One, the Escudo, is based on the old Vitara. The second is supposedly an Equinox relative. Haven't seen anything that says which, if any, are US-bound.

From Car & Driver:
"Suzuki used its stage in Cobo Hall to introduce the Concept-X, which hints at a production derivative that’s due to hit showrooms sometime in 2006. "The all-new Concept-X—Suzuki's first-ever midsize SUV concept—exhibits design cues, technology, power and amenities refined to meet specific American SUV buyer needs," explained Hirotaka Ono, board member of Suzuki Motor Corporation responsible for North American business. "We are proud to showcase this exciting vehicle which represents our sport-utility of the future." The Concept-X is equipped with an all-new 3.6-liter V-6 engine that, according to Suzuki, delivers class-leading horsepower. In addition, the Concept-X is equipped with a new four-wheel-drive system—dubbed "4GO"—that combines on-demand low-range capability with typical all-wheel-drive efficiency. On the outside, the Concept-X sports large 20-inch alloy wheels, LED headlamps, and satin silver chrome front and rear grille underguards; inside, it pampers with satellite television, a DVD/DVR player, dual 12-inch LCD screens, and integrated Bluetooth technology for cellular phones, PDAs, e-mail, and navigation."
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....cle_id=9098#42

[webxfx]

Originally Posted by TPFilm

....Suzuki would develop the Escudo/X2 on an entirely different platform, and have it look almost exactly like the VUE.....

has anyone pick-uped that fact that the Escudo is RWD based and not FWD? I wonder if the VUE will come that way?

[haypops]

There seems lots of confusion about this car. What we do know, however, is that there has been article after article that a Theta derived SUV would replace the Susuki Vitara. It is not surprising that Susuki could use theta as it is being prooed for use in Cadillac and Hummer.

[TPFilm]

Originally Posted by D C

Escudo = NOT Theta

GM Theta platform
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Theta is General Motors' new crossover SUV automobile platform. The architecture debuted in 2002 with the Saturn VUE and was later used for the Chevrolet Equinox. The platform was developed by GM and Suzuki Motors, but a substantial part of work for upcoming 2006 Theta-based models was done by GM Daewoo and GM's Shanghai, China engineering operation, Pan-Asia Technical Automotive Center.
[edit]
Vehicles

Current vehicles based on this platform:
2002 Saturn VUE
2005 Chevrolet Equinox
Future vehicles based on this platform:
2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara replacement
2006 Pontiac Torrent (Aztek replacement)
2006 Chevrolet S3X 7-passenger SUV (Europe and South Korea only)
2007 Chevrolet T2X 5-passenger SUV coupe

FROM CHEERS & GEERS.com http://www.cheersandgears.com/platforms/theta.htm
"General Motors set out to create a good car based SUV to fight of foreign competition. They came up with the all new Theta FWD/AWD SUV architecture. Theta underpins the Saturn Vue for 2002, the 2005 Chevrolet Equinox and the 2006 Pontiac Torrent as well as the next Suzuki Grand Vitara"

FROM: http://www.freep.com/money/autorevie...4_20040524.htm
"The Theta architecture, which has already produced the Saturn Vue and Chevrolet Equinox, will spawn a range of other small SUVs.

Pontiac will also get a Theta SUV. It will be called the Torrent and will replace the slow-selling Aztek, sources familiar with the program said.

Suzuki, a GM Japanese affiliate, also has a Theta SUV in the works, although, like most of the upcoming cars and trucks, it has not yet won final official approval. The Suzuki and Pontiac Theta SUVs will probably be produced in Cambridge, Ontario, alongside the Equinox. Saturn builds the Vue in Spring Hill, Tenn."

CONCEPT X2:
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Overall Length 176 inches
Overall Width 74.4 inches
Overall Height 66.7 inches
Wheelbase 103.9 inches
Tread 63.8 inches (front)
64.6 inches (rear)

GRAND VITARA:
Overall length (in) 164.5
Overall width (in) 70.1
Overall height (in) 67.3
Wheelbase (in) 97.6
Track front/rear (in) 59.1/59.1

SATURN VUE:
Length 181.3
Wheelbase 106.6
Width 71.5
Height 66.5
Track, front 61.0
Track, rear 61.0

As you can see, the X2 (& Escudo) is closer to the VUE in size. The Suzuki Concept X is allegedly the basis for the new XL7.

[TPFilm]

I think that I have this all figured out:

Suzuki has beefed-up the Theta Platform with a built-in ladder frame, thus making it stronger and more capable for true off-roading. All you have to do is look at the pictures of the Concept X2, shown in NY in March. The Concept X that debuted in Detroit earlier this year is slated to be the basis for the XL7 replacement. That is suppossed to be built on the Long Wheel base Theta platform. Looking at the Escudo, and the visual information available on the Japanese web site, the Escudo is built on a stregthened Theta Platform.

Now... I think that they (Suzuki & GM) are letting everyone think that the next Vitara will be a variation of the same. That way, in the Fall, Suzuki can premier the new Vitara (the X2/ Escudo) and amaze everyone.

Suzuki will be building a vehicle based on Theta in Canada, where GM already builds the Equinox and the Torrent. Suzuki is too small of a company to develop a model exclusively for the US. Suzuki needs to replace the very aged Grand Vitara and the XL7 (a stretched Vitarra.) The money spent to develop the Escudo for Japan only and then another model for the US would bankrupt the company.

Suzuki, along with Daewoo helped GM develop the Theta Platform. It only makes sense that Suzuki get a stab at it. After all, Daewoo will get a European and Asian only SUV based on Theta.

As I have said, the pictures speak for themslves. If Suzuki was not using the Theta Platform why did they take the time to design the X2 and the Escudo to look SOOOO much like the VUE-'Qui-'Rent? The hood design, the basic body lines, the 'Pod' set-up for the dash board, the rear seats... it all screams VUE.

The original intent of my post was this: Why did/would GM allow Suzuki be the one to develop a true 4X4 from Theta? You think that GM would have done it with the Equinox. Could there be a Z71 version of the 'Nox in the future? Maybe Saturn could get its own "Z71" version?

[TPFilm]

I tried and looked and searched all over the web, tried to get some spy shots of the '06 VUE. Couldn't find any. I did however come across these shots of the '06 Vitara.

[haypops]

Originally Posted by TPFilm

I think that I have this all figured out:

?

I think you have done a great job here. That said, two small arguements.

Suzuki is too small of a company to develop a model exclusively for the US. Suzuki needs to replace the very aged Grand Vitara and the XL7 (a stretched Vitarra.)

Don't underate Susuki. Although they are little fish in the U.S., hey are a much bigger deal in Japan. Don't they own mini car market in Japan.

Suzuki, along with Daewoo helped GM develop the Theta Platform

The theta debuted in 2002. It was obviously designed a couple of years before that. At that time Daewoo was not a part of GM, and if anything in constant negotiations with Ford!

Just as an aside
chears and gears

Cadillac is getting a theta too.

[TPFilm]

I am by no means underating Suzuki - I own an '03 Tracker. I know that in Asia & Japan they are, pardon the pun, big fish (read earlier posts to understand the pun!) It's just in US they are still small and don't have the money to develop a vehicle from the ground-up just for US market. Since Suzuki has had a partnership with GM for years (Tracker/Vitara and now GM-Daewoo rebadged compact cars) it only makes sense for them to use a GM platform... worldwide.

I admit my mistake about Daewoo helping, initially, to develop the Theta Platform. However, since GM bought Daewoo they have helped since.

[D C]

Originally Posted by TPFilm

CONCEPT X2:
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Overall Length 176 inches
Overall Width 74.4 inches
Overall Height 66.7 inches
Wheelbase 103.9 inches
Tread 63.8 inches (front)
64.6 inches (rear)

GRAND VITARA:
Overall length (in) 164.5
Overall width (in) 70.1
Overall height (in) 67.3
Wheelbase (in) 97.6
Track front/rear (in) 59.1/59.1

SATURN VUE:
Length 181.3
Wheelbase 106.6
Width 71.5
Height 66.5
Track, front 61.0
Track, rear 61.0

As you can see, the X2 (& Escudo) is closer to the VUE in size. The Suzuki Concept X is allegedly the basis for the new XL7.

Not buyin' it yet.
Suzuki has 2 vehicles: Grand Viagra and XL-7
GV has a wheelbase of 97.6
XL-7 has a wheelbase of 110.2
X2/Escudo wheelbase 103.9
VUE wheelbase 106.6
Equinox wheelbase 112.5


Theta has 2 wheelbases. That's a pretty expensive thing to change on a vehicle. If not identical, I would expect any variants to have a very very minor difference from the VUE-NOX.


Ok, so...

We have an Escudo that shows up on Suzuki's Japanese website. Damn...should have grabbed one of the japanese guys at work to read it. Anyhow, the Escudo there is shorter than a VUE in wheelbase but a couple inches. Why would you do that and not use the VUE wheelbase? Doesn't make sense. Then we have the rumour that CAMI is going to build that vehicle in addition to the NOX. Maybe on the line that builds the current GV & XL7.

Then there's the report that this is going to spawn a new XL-7, too. As close as the XL7 and Nox are today, it would be silly to adjust the wheelbase of Theta. Make the XL7 the same as the nox and be done with it. Same underpinnings, same powertrain layout, if not the same engines. Put in a more fancy AWD system than what's in theta now and you're all set. You might not have a low-range rock-crawler, but who really buys an XL7 for that?

Ok, looking at the japanese website, there is no way in hell that the Escudo is Theta based. Longitudinal engine & trans. Steering rack forward of the front axle, not behind like Theta. Track width is close. Frame looks different from what I can tell (who knows from that pic).

So......my guess is the info from page 1 is correct:

This sounds like an updated Grand Vitara:
"The new X2 (Escudo) is built off of the current Grand Vitara/Escudo ladder-frame platform but has been thoroughly updated in rigidity. "

This sounds like a different Theta-based vehicle:
"The next-generation XL-7 will be using the long-wheelbase Theta platform found in the Equinox. The Saturn Vue uses the short-wheelbase Theta platform. The XL-7 will be using GM's 3.6L DOHC 24V V6 VVT producing 250HP+. "

[TPFilm]

Ok... I am not an engineer nor and I am a car designer. I don't know if Suzuki could put a longitudinal engine/transmission and the steering box in front of the wheels on the Theta platform. All I know is that Suzuki will be building a small SUV on the Theta platform. The CAMI plant in Canada will begin (if not already... anyone know?) building a Suzuki in their plant that is now set up to build Theta platforms.

If the Escudo is not on the Theta platform, why did Suzuki put so much effort into making it resemble the Equinox and the VUE? It has too many similar styling cues - inside & out - to be a coincidence.

Suzuki is rumored to have been working on this for awhile now... Who's to say that they didn't figure out a way to do the things you say can't be done on Theta? Judging by the graphic on the Japanese web site, it looks like they added 'ladder frame' reinforcements to the uni-body. If they combined the two types, could they mount the engine and transmission the way Suzuki has in the Escudo?

[D C]

Hmmm...I'm wondering if they maybe styled this VUE-like so it resembles whatever they're really building off theta. Sure looks like the plain stole the rear doors from a VUE, doesn't it?

Suzuki could do all that on a Theta, but it would be prohibitively expensive. That's all the stuff that they try to keep common between models sharing a platform because that's where the savings. Pretty much everything under the car would need to change somehow.

I wonder if maybe they're going to introduce this Escudo (who came up with THAT name, anyhow?) and have it be the "4x4" Suzuki and then the XL7 or whatever Theta is, will be a light off-road version.

[TPFilm]

Possible scenario: Suzuki does all that with their version of Theta... GM-Daewoo uses it on their Eropean/ Asian only SUV... Chevy creates a Z71 version of Equinox. Just because it's expensive to do for one model, doen't mean it won't be shared... Platform evolution?

I think that Suzuki will stick with true 4X4 for the XL7. Why mess with what you are known for. Suzuki's not GM... they do actually make cars their customers want... That's why they made the XL7 on the current Vitarra frame... An affordable 7 passenger SUV that can go off-road (of course I wouldn't want to sit in the back row!)

True 4X4 VUE?

[haypops]

Originally Posted by D C

Suzuki could do all that on a Theta, but it would be prohibitively expensive. .

I don't think anything(within reason) is too expensive since Theta is going Cadillac(BRX) and possibly Hummer. Susuki could be doing the development for theta lux versions.

[TPFilm]

DC... in our back & forths about Suzuki making Theta, essentially, rear wheel drive... I forgot that Hummer will be getting a Theta vehicle. I REALLY don't think that GM would give Hummer a wimpy platform. So... there's your reason for Suzuki develloping the Theta to true 4X4... Suzuki gets a platform already designed, tested and proven... Suzuki spends the money needed to turn it in to a 4X4 platform... GM takes the platform and runs...

Suzuki gets a true 4X4 replacement for the Vitara and GM gets a brand new platform!

[D C]

There is no way, no how, that Hummer will ever get a Theta-derived vehicle. That is probably the most preposterous thing that anyone has made claim to. Saw that in other reports last year, supposedly from 'inside sources' but people I know that work at GM just laughed at the idea.

And if all that did happen...turning Theta into a RWD and all that..then I doubt that they would still refer to it as Theta. That would be, as you said, a new platform. What letter comes after Theta?

[TPFilm]

Because I can't believe that Suzuki would go to so much trouble designing the new Vitara to look like other GM SUVs if it was built on a seperate and unique platform... I wanted to put out there some more images to attempt to bolster my argument:

SUZUKI ESCUDO (VITARA):


SATURN VUE:


CHEVY EQUINOX:


SUZUKI ESCUDO (VITARA):



SATURN VUE: