700+ HP Red Line

[Admiral Beez]

http://www.saturn.com/aboutus2/news/pressstory20.jsp

[MGonzales]

Originally Posted by Admiral Beez

http://www.saturn.com/aboutus2/news/pressstory20.jsp

"Just as the legendary Chevrolet small-block V-8 became the cornerstone of the hot rod and speed equipment industry in the 20th century, the Ecotec is GM's four-cylinder engine of the future."

I'll give GM credit for getting so much from a 4-banger (titanium valves? LOL!) but I really hate to see them kill off cars like the Camaro / Firebird only to promote 4-cylinder hot rodding. I'm glad at least Ford sees things differently.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si

[Specialist]

It looks like our friends at Chevrolet are not to be outdone... They teamed up with the So Cal Speed Shop guys (same guys who ran the Saturn) to break the Saturn's record in a Cobalt SS. See attached.

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100671

So Cal had the Saturn, along with an all out speedster and a turbo charged in-line 5 Canyon, on display at the GM Pontiac complex earlier this year. Pretty cool stuff - Lots of lightweight materials and welded tube frames.

[Admiral Beez]

"I really hate to see them kill off cars like the Camaro / Firebird only to promote 4-cylinder hot rodding."

GM didn't kill them, the market did. No one was buying them. To GM's credit you still have a few V-8, rear drive high HP vehicles to chose from, including the GTO, Corvette, new Cadillac coupes, etc...

[MGonzales]

Originally Posted by Admiral Beez

"I really hate to see them kill off cars like the Camaro / Firebird only to promote 4-cylinder hot rodding."

GM didn't kill them, the market did. No one was buying them. To GM's credit you still have a few V-8, rear drive high HP vehicles to chose from, including the GTO, Corvette, new Cadillac coupes, etc...

And yet the affordable Mustang continues to thrive, and I bet we're going to see record breaking sales for the '05. GM killed the F-body IMO by not updating it. Those other GM cars you mentioned are nice, but TOO nice.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si

[REDonBLK]

"The key to the race modified Ecotec's extraordinary performance is a turbocharger that produces up to 30 psi boost. "



Everytime I hear of them getting big power gains out of the 2.0 Eco it's always with it turbocharged.

I'd like to see what they can do with just the stock supercharger on it.

[Specialist]

Originally Posted by REDonBLK

I'd like to see what they can do with just the stock supercharger on it.

Me too... I feel that we are being left out.

It would not surprise me in the least if GM changed gears and killed the supercharger in favor of a turbo changer in the next few years. It could be a good cost saving to go with a common engine (SAAB 2.0l turbo in the 9-3), instead of building a special "North American" market engine. It would also eliminate the build complexity at Kaiserslautern (Germany) where the 2.0l engine is made.

[BlackRedline04]

wasnt this thing posted a while ago?

anyways, its nice to know it can make 700hp. I still like the twin-charged idea though (supercharger for low end, turbo for high end)

[TXRLU]

Originally Posted by MGonzales

And yet the affordable Mustang continues to thrive, and I bet we're going to see record breaking sales for the '05. GM killed the F-body IMO by not updating it. Those other GM cars you mentioned are nice, but TOO nice.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si

The Mustang sold more among female drivers which helped their sales. Some women aren't as concerned as "which has the best straightline performance" or "which has the highest horsepower rating". Not to turn this into a Camaro Vs. Mustang post, but to me the two cars were equally uncomfortable and crude not to factor in straight line performance and horsepower rating.

[MGonzales]

Originally Posted by TXRLU

The Mustang sold more among female drivers which helped their sales. Some women aren't as concerned as "which has the best straightline performance" or "which has the highest horsepower rating". Not to turn this into a Camaro Vs. Mustang post, but to me the two cars were equally uncomfortable and crude not to factor in straight line performance and horsepower rating.

I think you're right. I've read many times on Mustang groups/boards that the V6 far outsells the GT+. No doubt there's a lot of female Mustang V6 drivers, plus rental fleet sales. But hey, whatever it takes to keep the car going, and that's what Ford did while GM couldn't.

"Uncomfortable and crude"? That about sums up my '99 Mustang V6 test drive. Rubbery feeling shifter that felt like I had to reach way too far to shift. Flat unsupportive seats. Cheap feeling interior with miss-aligned gnarly plastic panels.

And how about the GT, with that ricey fake hood scoop? Ford didn't even TRY to make it look functional (big piece of black plastic covers what would be the air intake)!

And yet the previous Mustang sold well enough to survive anyway! So imagine how well the '05, with all of these issues resolved (as far as I can tell) is going to sell?!?!

[Caprice]

Originally Posted by MGonzales

titanium valves? LOL!

I happen to think that titanium should be used in more automotive parts, the stuff is just damned near impossible to break, I just don't know what the cost increase would be in it. I'll bet tho if the internals of the car lasted 20+ years the cost of the titanium parts would be worth it to the buyer.

Of course, I don't really know the physics of how various metals interact with eachother, I just know that they use titanium for various aircraft engine parts. I just infer from that that titanum would work for auto engines as well.

[CarNut]

Originally Posted by MGonzales

...Those other GM cars you mentioned are nice, but TOO nice.
--
Mark
'99 Civic Si

With discounts, the 04 GTO is in the same price range as a V-8 Firebird. The problem with the F-body was the price - far too expensive for what you got. Only $10K more would get you in a Corvette. Considering the cheaper insurance, better resale, and higher performance the Vette was/is a better value.

I had a chance to drive a C-5, F-body, and Mustang side-by-side at a GM Auto Show in Motion. At first I was impressed with the performance/handling of the F-body over the Mustang. The Mustang was more livable as a daily driver though, thanks to its smaller size and more functional interior. But after I drove the C5, any thoughts of owning an F-body (or Mustang) quickly disappeared. GM was right to kill it.

The Monaro/GTO should have been a hit. Unfortunately, they styled it like every other Pontiac. My local dealer has them parked amongst the G6s, and you have to look hard to notice the GTOs. Not to worry though, GM plans new GTO and Camaro in 06. http://www.gminsidenews.com/factsheet.htm

[MGonzales]

CarNut, the Corvette was always my favorite car as a kid (I'm 38). Oh, how many plastic models did I assemble of this car. But the '80s 'Vettes did me in. I've seen and ridden in some pretty nice C4s, but they always seemed to me to be a lower class redneck sports car. Not that I would have complained if someone would have given me one, but it was no longer a car I desired until the C5. Same with the '05 Mustang.

Isn't the '05 Mustang the first real major redesign since the late '70s? Maybe instead of killing the F-body GM could have redesigned it. The Holden cars always looked good to me, but I remember the GTO(?) concept car pics looking more radical (in a good way) than the production model. It's a little too '90s looking (as C&D put it).

New Camaro?!?! I hope it's late '60s retro too.

[HiWire]

I can't wait until the new F-bodies return. If they disappoint me, I can always pick up a 2002

[OvenRude]

I wonder what it will max out at on the street, since that car runs on methanol and is def. not streetable.

[clownhair]

Originally Posted by MGonzales

"Just as the legendary Chevrolet small-block V-8 became the cornerstone of the hot rod and speed equipment industry in the 20th century, the Ecotec is GM's four-cylinder engine of the future."

I'll give GM credit for getting so much from a 4-banger (titanium valves? LOL!) but I really hate to see them kill off cars like the Camaro / Firebird only to promote 4-cylinder hot rodding. I'm glad at least Ford sees things differently.
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si

It had far more to do with the deal GM had with the Canadian assembly plant than sales. There was new safety regulations required and the plant was only being used to create the Fbodies and would cost far too much to upgrade to produce the Fbody. The plan had the contract until 2007 which is why they are returning the Camaro in 07 on a shared platform so they wont run into that problem again.