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Old 10-30-2017, 07:30 PM   #1
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Default Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

Hi guys I'm new to the forums here, I just purchased a 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line Hybrid a couple weeks ago. When I got the vehicle I immediately checked for DTCs and seen p0110, p0111, p0113, p0114 codes and started my research and seen this was a common problem. I noticed the Vue's charge/assist meter always stayed on the center line and never went into the assist/charge areas no matter what. I ordered the two cam solenoids and immediately my gauge started to work and the 'autostop' feature started working on the car (which i'd not witnessed working yet either) After I drove around a few miles though my CEL came back on. Now I had a new code for the TPS/APP P0121. First thing I done was CAREFULLY cleaned the original TB with throttle body cleaner from Adv Auto being careful not to let it seep into the electronic area.

Also when the CEL came on its important to note that the charge/assist gauge also began to stay centered again as it was with the p011* codes. Anyway after reinstalling the original TB, I got in and started the car up and the idle went up to around 2500RPM and slowly came back down to about 1700RPM and instantly set a new DTC at that RPM and the tach fell fast to about 700RPM but would surge very bad. I checked the code with my pcm reader and it was P2172 (Sudden High Air Flow / Vaccum Leak) I checked I had the TB torqued properly and the gasket was in good shape, checked my brake booster, evap lines, and I had a known working MAP sensor I threw on at the time as well. All checked out ok. No matter what I done with the original Throttle Body i would get P2172 ALWAYS set on the rpm drop right at 1700RPM. When I would erase this code/clear DTCs the idle relearn process would try to restart and the rpms would rise back up above 2000 rpm and start their process back down to 1700RPM then just suddenly drop all at once and set the DTC.

At this point I threw the towel in and bought a new GM replacement TB and threw it in the car. Problem solved.. Well so i thought. No more 2000 RPM and slowly dropping and P2172 code. It instantly idled around 700RPM and idled smooth (no more surging). However, after cruising around a few miles my dang CEL illuminated AGAIN!! Fearfully, I rescan the ECM for the DTC. ---P0121 AGAIN, with a brand new TB!! At this point I start leaning toward the Accelerator Pedal being faulty and causing the issue, as I could let it set and idle for 2 hours in Park and no CEL at all, but as soon as I drove around and got up to around 60mph thats when I'd get the P0121 pending code on my reader, then after the next trip it would set the CEL. So I went and replaced the Pedal/sensor assembly as well. Now I'm in the same boat, still with P0121 - new throttle body, new accelerator pedal assembly. I've checked for vacuum leaks with a fine tooth comb, All connectors and wires seem to be in good condtion and making good contact. As long as I have the code reader hooked up I can clear the DTCs before each trip and my Charge/Assist meter works fine, but anytime the P0121 DTC causes the CEL to pop up then the hybrid functionality and the autostop features stop functioning. I'm also wondering if each time I clear the DTC codes if it is resetting my short term fuel trims and/or long term fuel trims? Would anyone know what else could cause a p0121 besides the TB/APP, bad contacts, vacuum leaks? I know this is a rather long post and I'm sorry if it is TLDR; I appreciate your guys help a LOT. Don't be afraid to get technical with me, I have quite a bit experience with ECM tuning, however this one has about got me stumped. Honestly thinking that the Throttle Relearn procedure isn't completing properly or something just isn't in sync with the pedal/TB and I can't afford to pay GM to hook a SnapOn up just to perform a manual calibration with KOEO, wish I still had my HPTuner programmer as it had bi-directional command functionality, just don't know what the heck is causing this P0121 the car runs perfectly fine until it sets the code, I've logged freeze frames and can't even find anything causing it.

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Old 10-31-2017, 09:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

As serious as you are about diy repairs, are you using alldata or Mitchell?

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Old 10-31-2017, 09:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

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As serious as you are about diy repairs, are you using alldata or Mitchell?
No I've not ever subscribed to those services although I have recommended them to my brother who runs a car lot. I've usually had pretty good success with spending some time researching online, and looking through FSM and/or Haynes manuals. I'd think that someone who deals with a broader spectrum of different types of vehicles would benefit more from something such as Alldata.

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Old 10-31-2017, 10:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

Unless you have specific service manual info from alldata or Mitchell, you may hit a wall if not resorting to GM services. You've got way too much hands on experience to ignore service manuals. There's always the choice to wait for one or two to techs to offer advice or try online with some of the techs that may help. Your descriptions seem to show multiple problems and difficult to separate one from another if something creates a cascade effect. It's sometimes difficult to find the starting point, determine if one symptom or several are related and diagnosing either the easiest or difficult error code to correct them one at a time or all of them with one repair.

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Old 10-31-2017, 11:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Unless you have specific service manual info from alldata or Mitchell, you may hit a wall if not resorting to GM services. You've got way too much hands on experience to ignore service manuals. There's always the choice to wait for one or two to techs to offer advice or try online with some of the techs that may help. Your descriptions seem to show multiple problems and difficult to separate one from another if something creates a cascade effect. It's sometimes difficult to find the starting point, determine if one symptom or several are related and diagnosing either the easiest or difficult error code to correct them one at a time or all of them with one repair.
Yea its a bit weird as I never got a P0121 code until I solved the p0110-p0114 codes by replacing the actuator solenoids. The only thing I can think of that may be causing a false positive for the TPS code is the MAF sensor having some type of intermittent hiccup that doesn't produce a p0102 but instead makes the ECM think the TPS is out of range based on the MAF/MAP readings.

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Old 10-31-2017, 12:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

With sophistication in EFI systems comes more info needed to know how it works. Baseline info may help if you logged them when the engine was running fine so they can be compared with new readings.

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Old 10-31-2017, 02:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

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With sophistication in EFI systems comes more info needed to know how it works. Baseline info may help if you logged them when the engine was running fine so they can be compared with new readings.
Thats just the thing I know how to use freeze frame data to analyze what values are when a particular DTC is set. And there is nothing noticeably different from when DTC = 1 and when DTC = 0 I can just tell that the DTC for the TPS P0121 is only set when the vehicle is above 45mph and in drive. As long as I keep my speed below 45mph the code will not trigger a CEL nor will it pend. The VSS appears functional and working as well. I'm beginning to wonder if the the ECM may have a buggy calibration installed and may need to be reflashed with an updated calibration - OR the ECU may be somewhat defective.

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Old 10-31-2017, 02:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

As another diyer using my own set of service manuals and the wealth of information shared here, my learning never seems to stop as EFI systems and more electronics are added.

Your concern about the possibility of ecm failure or needing update is valid but without paying GM to determine this or access to service bulletins from alldata/Mitchell, you're left to guessing and it can be an expensive guess. In the short time as member here, I've seen very little software updates when the majority blame the pcm/ecm for problems. Most of the time when engine computers are blamed, its the person not acknowledging unfamiliarity of EFI systems when its more likely sensors are faulty. Perhaps several generations of home personal computers makes many think they can tackle EFI systems. More likely without knowledge of basic engine fundamentals and how EFI systems work to control engines and emissions systems, electronics is only one of several areas to consider with or without error codes. One perfect example of false information is the infamous S-series coolant sensor failing in almost every engine from first production in 1991 to 2001.

The faulty design of using resin tipped sensors was a total failure as each one cracks in the cooling system environment yet works flawlessly in xmissions to monitor xmission oil temps. Its also used as the intake air intake temperature sensor without fail. In the cooling system, two sensors were used ('96 and up went to one sensor), one for the pcm and the second for the temperature gauge. The coolant sensor is two wire, temperature gauge one wire. Temperature gauge works fine and is the tell tale to the other sensor failure. Once the two wire resin sensor cracks, it sends freezing temperature signals, higher resistance/lower voltage than normal with the pcm flooding the engine with excessive fuel on startup and while running. The secondary effect is the pcm never sees the engine overheat with the cooling fan never turning on when in local traffic, resulting in coolant boil overs. The temperature gauge never goes above the 1/4 mark all this time and in winter, the heater doesn't put out heat. When cycling this way, the thermostat seal melts and never allows the cooling system to reach operating temps. Engine runs at higher idle, never provides heat in winter, overheats in local traffic while the temperature gauge never shows any overheating indications while coolant boils out with white steam erupting from under the hood. This one sensor corrupted the pcm and influenced xmission shifts. Once replaced with the redesigned brass sensor, all the problems went away. A new t-stat corrects operating temps and allow heater operation in winter.

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Old 11-08-2017, 11:12 PM   #9
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Dizzy Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
As another diyer using my own set of service manuals and the wealth of information shared here, my learning never seems to stop as EFI systems and more electronics are added.

Your concern about the possibility of ecm failure or needing update is valid but without paying GM to determine this or access to service bulletins from alldata/Mitchell, you're left to guessing and it can be an expensive guess. In the short time as member here, I've seen very little software updates when the majority blame the pcm/ecm for problems. Most of the time when engine computers are blamed, its the person not acknowledging unfamiliarity of EFI systems when its more likely sensors are faulty. Perhaps several generations of home personal computers makes many think they can tackle EFI systems. More likely without knowledge of basic engine fundamentals and how EFI systems work to control engines and emissions systems, electronics is only one of several areas to consider with or without error codes. One perfect example of false information is the infamous S-series coolant sensor failing in almost every engine from first production in 1991 to 2001.

The faulty design of using resin tipped sensors was a total failure as each one cracks in the cooling system environment yet works flawlessly in xmissions to monitor xmission oil temps. Its also used as the intake air intake temperature sensor without fail. In the cooling system, two sensors were used ('96 and up went to one sensor), one for the pcm and the second for the temperature gauge. The coolant sensor is two wire, temperature gauge one wire. Temperature gauge works fine and is the tell tale to the other sensor failure. Once the two wire resin sensor cracks, it sends freezing temperature signals, higher resistance/lower voltage than normal with the pcm flooding the engine with excessive fuel on startup and while running. The secondary effect is the pcm never sees the engine overheat with the cooling fan never turning on when in local traffic, resulting in coolant boil overs. The temperature gauge never goes above the 1/4 mark all this time and in winter, the heater doesn't put out heat. When cycling this way, the thermostat seal melts and never allows the cooling system to reach operating temps. Engine runs at higher idle, never provides heat in winter, overheats in local traffic while the temperature gauge never shows any overheating indications while coolant boils out with white steam erupting from under the hood. This one sensor corrupted the pcm and influenced xmission shifts. Once replaced with the redesigned brass sensor, all the problems went away. A new t-stat corrects operating temps and allow heater operation in winter.
**Skip To Last Section if TLDR contains a lot of offtopic rant about my timing chain journey **

Sorry for the delayed reply. I had to tackle a much more needed issue the last few days. I experienced the 'rattle of death' at idle the last day I drove last week. I pulled the valve cover and seen I had nearly 1 inch of slop in the timing chain. Pulled the tensioner and said WOW. someone had took the original tensioner out at one point, and apparently lost the snap ring that holds the internals in. And instead of going out and finding a snap ring at the hardware store, they had the bright idea of using an O-RING, yes an O-RING. Thank GOD I found this! I ordered the full kit from Cloyes and got it in Friday night. Got my timing chain and balance shaft chain all changed along with brand new gears and a PROPER tensioner. Now the car sounds perfect at idle and not like a diesel!

Anyway back to the original topic, I am very familiar with GMs failing ECT sensors used in the 4.3 engines as I'm very familiar with those engines and I have quite a bit of tuning experience with 4.3, 5.3, and 5.7L GM engines (mostly with HP Tuners) You are exactly right about the failure of the ECM sensor and the 1 wire sensor to the Gauge working fine. I've seen it first hand myself.

I've still not figured out the P0121 issue on the car but I'm really thinking it almost has to be the APP and not the TB. Still I never get the Pending code until I reach exactly 50mph at any throttle position. Then the code stores at the next key cycle on the next trip as soon as I hit 50mph again the MIL will come on. It doesn't seem to be effecting my performance / mileage any, its just annoying getting the CEL/MIL on otherwise a perfect running vehicle.

A little fun note - While I was changing out the timing chains and gears, the first bolt I touched on saturday to remove an old guide slipped out of my oily fingers and fell right down in the left corner of the timing cover where i could barely feel it - Well I grabbed a magnetic screwdriver in an attempt to pull it out - mistake!! Instead of it grabbing the bolt it pushed it right down into a passage that went down into the oil pan's baffle. I spent a couple hours trying to fish it out with a extending magnet to no avail. Then I just said yep the oil pan is coming off. At the time I didn't know that these engines didn't come with a gasket on the oil pan so I was being very careful to try to not damage the oil pan gasket. After getting the bolt out I said well I'm just going to replace the oil pan gasket while I'm at it, searched all over the net for one and could not find a part number anywhere. Finally found a site somewhere that mentioned that GM didn't use gaskets on the oil pan, only used a permatex like sealant from the factory. After I crawled back underneath and reinspected, I seen that was true, there was white rubber silicone material from the factory there. I could not figure that out as the oil pan has tabs to hold a gasket in place. Oh well I used the best Permatex Ultra Black on there, and even used it on both sides of the Timing cover gasket just as a extra measure. No leaks at all. No more rattle.. Just lost about 2 days of drive time in my car due to the oil pan ordeal... Note to everyone doing a timing chain install: Put some newspaper or something across the bottom of the timing/crank area inside to block the passages to the oil pan as you will need to remove many guides and tensioners, and its very likely you might drop a bolt as well and trust me you do not want to remove the oil pan especially when doing a timing job!!

Sorry I've been a little off topic from my OP, but if anyone has any suggestions on this P0121 issue please give me your suggestions. I've tried 2 working used Throttle bodies and one new one. I've checked all wires going to the connector and they seem fine. The problem occurs right at 50mph. The funny thing is I can clear the code at 50mph and continue to drive 50 and even decelerate down to around 45 and back up to 60 and back down to 50 and will not get the code again until I come to a complete stop and accelerate from 0 to 50 mph then it will set instantly. Being experienced with tuning and being a part time technician in a shop this one has me stumped for sure. I'm wondering if the APP (pedal) is the real culprit after all but according to my freeze frame data and analysis of data on the TP A/B APP A/B Desired / Actual states, things seem to be within the proper ranges. One thing I noticed when I changed my Cam Actuator Solenoids was a couple frayed wires on those, and they have to be bent almost perfect to keep the solenoids working properly, I'm wondering if at 50mph the cam solenoids are activating and just a small voltage change in them is causing a voltage difference in the TPS/APP system. Can anyone find a full Electrical System wiring digram to the fuse panel and to the ECM for the 2007 Green Line ( or any of the 2.4L ecotecs for that matter) I'd like to see if they could possibly be on a common circuit because IIRC I never seen the p0121 code until I fixed my P0010 and p0013 codes with those actuators.

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Old 11-09-2017, 01:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

I won't take credit about the infamous coolant sensor fiasco. Credit belongs to members here for sharing their experiences to alert others about it. All I did was explain it from info gathered here and working backwards into the pcm and how it can interpret incorrect signals to react on signals given. Its not rocket science but is technical from how an engine is supposed to run and how sensors can alter how an engine computer interprets misinformation to run engines for better or worse. I call this inadvertent tweaking with unintended consequences.

You may be onto something, associating frayed wiring to cam actuators and P0121 when all info points to the drive by wire system of throttle actuator, pedal and ecm. No one, not even GM, can discuss the what ifs of real world problems outside controlled lab tests and real world driving. Since age related issues may play a role as well as incorrect wire lengths (cold solder joints, water intrusion into circuit boards and other strange events) to contribute to unusual problems, simple answers to straight questions may not apply here. Frayed wiring to cam actuators, in theory, would alter mechanical timing resulting in incorrect power settings. If sensors detect this, the question is there programming to take this into account or is this one of the what ifs never imagined and not addressed as a fault with a corresponding error code? The other part of this what if scenario of never being addressed is what goes on with the engine? Does this result in P0121, inadvertently steering everyone to examine throttle actuator, ecm and pedal when its a wiring issue in the cam actuator? If I'm not mistaken, cam actuators don't have feedback sensors (or do they?) so faulty cam actuators simply trigger a faulty cam error code. Does this take into account your incident of frayed cam actuator wiring creating other error codes that may be described as the cascade effect? All hypothetical at this point except your observations of loose wiring. The simple yet tedious way to test this and possibly fixing the problem may be adding wire extensions to this wire harness and/or replacing the connector. With your experience, this shouldn't be outside your comfort level.

Subscribing to alldata or Mitchell will give you all the wiring diagrams needed. Not everything is free so there are times to invest some money for info.

Last edited by fdryer; 11-09-2017 at 01:28 AM..

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Old 11-10-2017, 04:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

smh.. I'm stumped on this TB/TPS thing. I'm wondering why with the original throttle body during relearn i get the p2172 code (TPS actuator system detected a massive air flow leak) But with 2 (yes now 2 different throttle bodies) I throw only p0121 after I get up to speed. I can set and rev any way i wish in Park/Neutral or even Drive as long as I stay below 50ish mph and the fault won't occur. As soon as soon as I hit that speed the code is going to set almost 9 times out of 10.

I'm just wondering if its effecting my mpg / power. Because, sadly I haven't been able to drive this car without the code any at all yet, except for when I was getting the cam actuator codes I wasn't getting the TPS code.

Like mentioned before a cascade effect can take place. You resolve one DTC and then another will poke its head up, solve that one, and another one will poke its head up. I am aware that GM has some of these functions in the PCM only checked when other functions have completed a duty cycle successfully, and if it doesn't complete that duty cycle it triggers a DTC for the function at hand and will put the vehicle into either limp mode or open-loop partial limp where all other sensor data is basically ignored. In those situations you may only have one DTC occurring that you think you need to fix, but upon fixing it you get prompted with multiple new DTCs you've never seen. With that being said I'm wondering if part of the TPS DTC triggers are calculated with data from the VSS tables.

I'd like to have a ecm bin of a stock 2.4 ecotec (doesn't have to necessarily be a saturn vue) as well as a definition file. Preferably something compatible with Tuner Pro or would be awesome if there was some progress with an open source project such as RomRaider to support GM / domestic vehicles.. I'd even be willing to dedicate some time to contributing to that as I am experienced with ASM/C/C++/Python/Perl languages and have a great deal experience with OBD tuning. (It's almost embarrassing to say that and be having this p0121 issue!!)


Not everyone can afford to buy a Tech2, and its not idealistic to subscribe to something such as Alldata/Mitchell just for one vehicle (regardless of my experience/knowledge level). Just to be honest I'm struggling at this point to keep the bills paid and running with a CEL is something I just have to do myself because I can't afford to pay someone else to fix it. Throwing parts at it isn't genius level fixing, but I do have access to more parts than the average joe considering my brother runs a used car lot, so at this point I'm willing to switch in/out about any sensor that could be causing this issue.

Sorry for yet another long post, hope I've not annoyed anyone too bad with this. Thanks to ALL who have any suggestions!

**On another note, I'm going to pull the intake manifold today and check to see if the PCV system could be clogged, I noticed that I had positive pressure from the vacuum line going into the plastic filter assembly from the crankcase and to my understanding this line should be sucking (negative pressure) at idle and not blowing (positive pressure). I highly doubt this is causing a p0121 issue, but it will be good preventive maintenance for the life of the seals and o rings. Can't stand to know there is a possibility for a small port being blocked underneath my intake manifold, I have to make sure!

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Old 11-10-2017, 09:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

Each of us determines when to cave and bring our car to either a repair shop or dealer. I know how you feel. I can afford to have someone else drop the fuel tank to replace a dead pump but all other things I've done at home. I'm close to 100k miles and a timing belt/water pump change and not looking forward to back breaking work.

Your understanding of the OBD II system may be off a little. Each time we start our engines, the on board emissions self tests are run, every time we drive. In effect, when all's well, the check engine light stays off and on states with emissions inspection, the lack of the cel means the car passed emissions before driving to inspection. As soon as an wire is detected with the cel turning on, emissions testing halts and does not continue. It halts because one or more errors occurred so it's pointless to continue emissions testing. When each error is corrected the next engine start allows the OBD II system to detect the correct repairs, reset the error code or codes and then continued testing - if corrected the cel turns off and the error codes are stored in pending memory. This means state inspection will see this as well as anyone with their own reader. A certain number of engine startups with the car driven in each cycle before the pending error code(s) are erased forever. This is the OBD II system to remember if anyone tampers with repairs and creates a new or recurring error.

I don't know what to suggest at this point as it appears as if you boxed yourself into a corner and cannot see your way out. Sometimes we assume too many things and refuse to open our mind to others with a different point of view that may help to change our narrow point of view. I've done this a few times an admit it so I can move on.

I just had a new tankless combination water heater and three zone heating system installed for a large bill. It was time and after nursing the old boiler for so many years, there is no way I have all the expertise to create a new heating system from scratch as was done to convert from old style tank heaters to tankless. It's nice to see licensed plumbers work show their workmanship - the results are a work of art.

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Old 11-11-2017, 09:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Each of us determines when to cave and bring our car to either a repair shop or dealer. I know how you feel. I can afford to have someone else drop the fuel tank to replace a dead pump but all other things I've done at home. I'm close to 100k miles and a timing belt/water pump change and not looking forward to back breaking work.

Your understanding of the OBD II system may be off a little. Each time we start our engines, the on board emissions self tests are run, every time we drive. In effect, when all's well, the check engine light stays off and on states with emissions inspection, the lack of the cel means the car passed emissions before driving to inspection. As soon as an wire is detected with the cel turning on, emissions testing halts and does not continue. It halts because one or more errors occurred so it's pointless to continue emissions testing. When each error is corrected the next engine start allows the OBD II system to detect the correct repairs, reset the error code or codes and then continued testing - if corrected the cel turns off and the error codes are stored in pending memory. This means state inspection will see this as well as anyone with their own reader. A certain number of engine startups with the car driven in each cycle before the pending error code(s) are erased forever. This is the OBD II system to remember if anyone tampers with repairs and creates a new or recurring error.

I don't know what to suggest at this point as it appears as if you boxed yourself into a corner and cannot see your way out. Sometimes we assume too many things and refuse to open our mind to others with a different point of view that may help to change our narrow point of view. I've done this a few times an admit it so I can move on.

I just had a new tankless combination water heater and three zone heating system installed for a large bill. It was time and after nursing the old boiler for so many years, there is no way I have all the expertise to create a new heating system from scratch as was done to convert from old style tank heaters to tankless. It's nice to see licensed plumbers work show their workmanship - the results are a work of art.
You are exactly right, I am stubborn. But I have learned it pays to be in the majority of cases. I live in a very rural area and I know most mechanics in my area personally, and to be honest most of them just aren't competent to work on OBD style engines, when it comes to carb engines they excel really well, but anything with electronics they are clueless about. I would probably have to travel at least 150 miles one way to get to a shop where a technician/mechanic had proficient experience with OBDII based engines. Most of them just replace the sensor and turn off the CEL and bill you, for you to get 10 miles down the road and the CEL come back on with the exact same DTC.. Not something I'm willing to devote my money to, because I can do that myself, done have..

**Edit: If you are going to do the Waterpump/Timing Chain replacement I have a few tips to give you. Please block the ports off to the oil pan inside the timing cover and don't forget to remove whatever you chose to block it with when reassembling. I dropped a bolt to a timing chain guide and it ended up in the oil pan, which set me back more hours of work than the entire timing chain replacement would have. There is no gasket to fit the 2.4L ecotec's oilpan you need to use Permatex and need to let it set up for 24 hours. So try to avoid that situation by all means!! Also if you have the BAS /hybrid style system, you need a special tool to release tension on the serpentine belt (a tool in which I didn't have) I got around this in a manor that probably is not recommended, but just so you know you need to plan for this as that tensioner (looks like a spring loaded shock) is the biggest hurdle I had other than dropping the bolt in the oil pan. The rest of the timing chain replacement goes pretty smoothly to be honest, much more so than I expected. If I had of not dropped the bolt, and had the belt removal tool, I'd probably got the balance shaft chain, timing chain, water pump all replaced and back on the road in approx 4 hours. Instead I had like 72 hours down time on my vehicle total though.. Good Luck!

Last edited by linuxsociety; 11-11-2017 at 09:32 PM..

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Old 11-12-2017, 12:43 AM   #14
fdryer
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Idle relearn / DTC issues after new TB installation

I understand your situation better. Perhaps trying online services, some free, with certified ASE techs can help with better expertise than mine. This may be your best option without leaving your home. You'll probably need to provide as much or more info to online techs for them to make any assessments. Hopefully you find better help and maybe share any positive outcome. There's always the occasional GM tech that reads these forums and contributes their expertise too.

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