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Old 09-14-2017, 10:48 AM   #1
Ty_almeida
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Default Computer power?

I have a 1997 sw2 DOHC engine in my 1999 sc1 body. It use it for a 4 cylinder racing division. I already have an automatic ECU or PCM as some call it in the car for higher rev limiter. Anyone know of a place I could send my ECU to get programmed? Or other things to possibly make the car “faster” without noticeable upgrades as it is a stock division??

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Old 09-14-2017, 11:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Computer power?

In one word, no. You'll read and be suggested to try links to places that either sells a chip to add to the coolant sensor wiring or other place that can repair them. None can access the fixed programming in Saturn's PCMs, period. There have been more than a handful here over the years that claimed they can break into PCM's and reprogram them but they all faded away without ever being successful with a follow-up to spread the word. None. Saturn is/was a different kind of car company and this probably filtered down to having fixed PCMs. Corvettes and Camaros have tunable ECMs but those are GM's high profile cars so the bean counters probably thought "You know, these engines may need tweaking so maybe we should have the ECMs setup so anyone with tuning skills can modify things for track racing......" Saturns aren't race cars, period, so the PCMs are fixed without tuning capability.

To get around this, serious tuners simply buy a megasquirt to piggyback onto the PCM so turbocharging becomes possible. Other mods are needed too.

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Old 09-14-2017, 11:20 AM   #3
Ty_almeida
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Default Re: Computer power?

So do you have any other options on making the car faster? Things I can add or take away to make it have more pep or things I can change? I already have an MP2 tranny on it.






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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
In one word, no. You'll read and be suggested to try links to places that either sells a chip to add to the coolant sensor wiring or other place that can repair them. None can access the fixed programming in Saturn's PCMs, period. There have been more than a handful here over the years that claimed they can break into PCM's and reprogram them but they all faded away without ever being successful with a follow-up to spread the word. None. Saturn is/was a different kind of car company and this probably filtered down to having fixed PCMs. Corvettes and Camaros have tunable ECMs but those are GM's high profile cars so the bean counters probably thought "You know, these engines may need tweaking so maybe we should have the ECMs setup so anyone with tuning skills can modify things for track racing......" Saturns aren't race cars, period, so the PCMs are fixed without tuning capability.

To get around this, serious tuners simply buy a megasquirt to piggyback onto the PCM so turbocharging becomes possible. Other mods are needed too.

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Old 09-14-2017, 12:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Computer power?

Dual intake cam's move the power band up some.

You can bolt on the factory '91-'92 header, it's a 4-2-1 design and flows better than the stock '93-'98 manifold.

You can also adjust the FPR for a bit more pressure (if it's using the better '97 fuel rail and system) but this isn't recommended unless you have a FP gauge and more importantly a wideband O2 sensor as it's easy to go the wrong way with the pressure and go far too lean blowing things up.

Smaller diameter tires will give you more of a gearing advantage off the line at the sacrifice of top speed. Putting in a MP3 will also give you more off the line, at least in 2nd and 3rd but again, this is at the sacrifice of top speed and circle tracker's seem to find the MP2 3rd gear to be the best.

Best bang for your buck is the obvious...strip everything out not required by the driver for safety, turning, going, and stopping
Lane (evilplastic.com) documented what everything weighs, lost nearly 250lbs and still had more that could have come out.

Only programmable ECU option the S-Series has is gutting the case and fitting a Megasquirt in, which tends to scare people off because they find wiring difficult. Of course, if the car doesn't have to be nearly factory stock that opens up a few more options.

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Old 09-14-2017, 12:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Computer power?

Where can I find the cams? Also I gutted the factory manifold out so it’s hollow. Will the 91’92’ header still be better? Also what is an FPR? (Sorry if I sound dumb) I just drive the piss out of them don’t gather much knowledge of them. The on the car has a return with what looks like a pod filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Dual intake cam's move the power band up some.

You can bolt on the factory '91-'92 header, it's a 4-2-1 design and flows better than the stock '93-'98 manifold.

You can also adjust the FPR for a bit more pressure (if it's using the better '97 fuel rail and system) but this isn't recommended unless you have a FP gauge and more importantly a wideband O2 sensor as it's easy to go the wrong way with the pressure and go far too lean blowing things up.

Smaller diameter tires will give you more of a gearing advantage off the line at the sacrifice of top speed. Putting in a MP3 will also give you more off the line, at least in 2nd and 3rd but again, this is at the sacrifice of top speed and circle tracker's seem to find the MP2 3rd gear to be the best.

Best bang for your buck is the obvious...strip everything out not required by the driver for safety, turning, going, and stopping
Lane (evilplastic.com) documented what everything weighs, lost nearly 250lbs and still had more that could have come out.

Only programmable ECU option the S-Series has is gutting the case and fitting a Megasquirt in, which tends to scare people off because they find wiring difficult. Of course, if the car doesn't have to be nearly factory stock that opens up a few more options.

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Old 09-14-2017, 02:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Computer power?

Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Junkyard for the other intake cam

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Old 09-14-2017, 03:25 PM   #7
Ty_almeida
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Default Re: Computer power?

Which cam is the intake cam? And also where do you intakl the FPR and where can i get one ? Sorry again for the possible dumb questions. Im still lesrning as i go and ask alot of questions.

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Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Junkyard for the other intake cam

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Old 09-14-2017, 11:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Computer power?

Well...you won't normally find an intake cam on the exhaust side of the head...lol
'91-'98 cams are interchangeable; guide on the dual intake cams: https://sixthsphere.com/showthread.p...ntake-cams-2-*

The FPR on '91-'97's is found on the fuel rail, follow the vacuum line down from the throttle body. If it's a '95-'97 FPR it'll have a torx adjustment screw on it. That said...if you don't know what "FPR" means in car terms, you don't have any business messing with it yet (there's much safer mods to do while you're still learning).

To use the '91-'92 header you need to keep the O2 sensor that's in it, it's a bit smaller than the '94+ O2 sensor. You also need the downpipe and downpipe bracket that bolts to the engine. The flange to the catalytic converter is different than the '93+ style so it'll either need to be cut off on the downpipe or take the cat-con from the same car you get the header from. Picture of one of the crappy aftermarket clones:


Depending on how ghetto you want to go you can make a CAI from 2.5" PVC pipe; roughly 3ft straight needed (1 3ft section, 3 1ft sections), 2 90deg elbows and 2 45deg elbows as well as a Spectra cone filter (same quality as K&N only without oil soaking the intake and without the K&N pricetag). Done properly this puts the filter in front of the driver side wheel, under the headlight and out of the heat of the engine bay. AEM's is $300+, eBay clones are $125ish...PVC is under $50 including glue & filter

Another obviously not-stock mod is the Geo Storm throttle body. It pretty much bolts onto the '91-'98 DOHC intake manifold, but to get full advantage of it the IM needs to be bored out quite a bit. First guide I found: https://sixthsphere.com/showthread.p...Body-Questions

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Old 09-14-2017, 11:20 PM   #9
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Computer power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_almeida View Post
I have a 1997 sw2 DOHC engine in my 1999 sc1 body. It use it for a 4 cylinder racing division. I already have an automatic ECU or PCM as some call it in the car for higher rev limiter. Anyone know of a place I could send my ECU to get programmed? Or other things to possibly make the car “faster” without noticeable upgrades as it is a stock division??
Nope. And why did you bother with the higher rev-limit? The 1997 DOHC engine only makes power to 6,000rpm(without heavy modifications or a turbo) and maximum SAFE engine speeds are no more than 6,750rpms. That is 750rpms of wasted gear.

You can't reprogram the stock PCM for better "performance" without hacking the software, which nobody does for the Saturns. Your best option is to buy a Megasquirt ECU, which my guess is against your racing rules anyway.

When you are shifting, you should NOT be going past 6,000rpm or you are just wasting gear and dropping lateral acceleration. Your shifting is likely why you are not impressed with your race performance or not winning races.

Shifts should be as close to 6,000(without going over by much), and dropping you back to just before 4,800rpm(peak torque).

Learn how to drive your car, instead of trying to cheat.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Computer power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_almeida View Post
Where can I find the cams? Also I gutted the factory manifold out so it’s hollow. Will the 91’92’ header still be better? Also what is an FPR? (Sorry if I sound dumb) I just drive the piss out of them don’t gather much knowledge of them. The on the car has a return with what looks like a pod filter.
Well, there was your first mistake. These engines get very little benefit from modifications that result in decreased velocity.

Take everything you think you know about racing engine and scrap them. The Saturn 1.9L engine will not respond as you expect.

Dual Intake cams? Great idea, until you get a tech teardown and caught(unless rules permit camshaft changes, which many don't). This also sacrifices low-rpm torque and off the line performance.

Team SCR made this mistake, by retiming their cams. Their 150hp(all top-end) runs a 15.8 qtr mile, which is barely better than a stock 124hp Twin Cam.

Get a 1991-1992 header and a walker Y-pipe. Remove the cat and install a spark plug fouler for the O2 sensor, to keep the MIL off(PCM will reduce performance is any DTCs are present for emissions. I lost 0.3 in the qtr mile for unplugging my air intake temp sensor for richer fuel ratio).

Make an intake system designed for velocity, instead of some fancy 3" $500 kit. Keep the stock exhaust pipes.

Get some Magnecor or Granatelli 8mm wires. Stock coils will be fine. Side gap and index your spark plugs.

KEEP your emissions control devices(EVAP, EGR, etc).

That is about it, as I am certain that they won't let you swap the TB out.

...
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1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Computer power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
Well...you won't normally find an intake cam on the exhaust side of the head...lol
'91-'98 cams are interchangeable; guide on the dual intake cams: https://sixthsphere.com/showthread.p...ntake-cams-2-*

The FPR on '91-'97's is found on the fuel rail, follow the vacuum line down from the throttle body. If it's a '95-'97 FPR it'll have a torx adjustment screw on it. That said...if you don't know what "FPR" means in car terms, you don't have any business messing with it yet (there's much safer mods to do while you're still learning).

To use the '91-'92 header you need to keep the O2 sensor that's in it, it's a bit smaller than the '94+ O2 sensor. You also need the downpipe and downpipe bracket that bolts to the engine. The flange to the catalytic converter is different than the '93+ style so it'll either need to be cut off on the downpipe or take the cat-con from the same car you get the header from. Picture of one of the crappy aftermarket clones:


Depending on how ghetto you want to go you can make a CAI from 2.5" PVC pipe; roughly 3ft straight needed (1 3ft section, 3 1ft sections), 2 90deg elbows and 2 45deg elbows as well as a Spectra cone filter (same quality as K&N only without oil soaking the intake and without the K&N pricetag). Done properly this puts the filter in front of the driver side wheel, under the headlight and out of the heat of the engine bay. AEM's is $300+, eBay clones are $125ish...PVC is under $50 including glue & filter

Another obviously not-stock mod is the Geo Storm throttle body. It pretty much bolts onto the '91-'98 DOHC intake manifold, but to get full advantage of it the IM needs to be bored out quite a bit. First guide I found: https://sixthsphere.com/showthread.p...Body-Questions
He doesn't need the bracket. I have been driving my SC2 for 15,000 miles without that bracket. Flex pipe is fine. It flexes with the engine, and rides on the rubber holders. And I have the 1991-1992 header/Y-Pipe installed.

Throttle body changes are typically not allowed in most racing circuits, and the SOHC TB is the better choice, unless you are going to a boosted application. Boring the inlet of the intake manifold will increase the modification costs, requires a fabricated bracket for the throttle cable on either, which will cause an oil leak through the PCV valve grommet if done incorrectly, and drop his low-rpm torque further.

TORQUE isn't just needed for off the line or coming out of the pits. It is crucial from coming out of corners with speed instead of lugging and requiring a downshift.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
Mechanic: I can't fix stupid, but I can fix what stupid does.

Last edited by Saturn Night; 09-14-2017 at 11:38 PM.. Reason: Add info

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Old 09-14-2017, 11:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: Computer power?

Here is the cheapest intake you can build, for improving performance. It cost me $68 to build this out of junkyard parts. And a few universal pieces at FLAPS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yx0lbb2oQcw

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Computer power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_almeida View Post
Anyone know of a place I could send my ECU to get programmed?

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...iring-harness/

Wire it up, and tune it yourself.

...
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: Computer power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazinghl View Post
His rules likely REQUIRE him to keep his stock ECU, hence why he was asking to find out how to hack the software and reflash the EPROM inside of it. Most racing circuits will not allow for ECU swaps, throttle body swaps, cam swaps, or other forms of major tuning such as shaved/ported heads and/or bored out blocks with higher-compression pistons.

The idea is to allow the racer to make small modifications, without basically allowing the racer with the biggest wallet to win every race. It keeps similarly-designed automobiles competitive and within reasonable limits where most people can participate in the events.

...
1991 Pontiac Grand Am @ 140k - More rust than paint & no leaks
1995 Saturn SC2 @ 181k - 17.2538 @ 77.91mph w/Stock TB
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