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Old 05-22-2017, 07:35 PM   #1
lt230s
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Default 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

I have a 2003 Ion, and recently my driver's side blinker's went out in both the front and back. I attempted to change the bulb but that did nothing. I could not find a fuse for any of the turn signals so it cannot be that. The drivers side blinkers do not work when i use either my turn signal, my hazards, or when my car is unlocked and my lights are supposed to flash. The only time the lights work is when I put the running lights on by twisting the left lever by the steering wheel up. Does anyone have any ideas?

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 05-23-2017, 11:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

This may be a faulty turn signal stalk switch or wiring. One clue to determine which way to go would be turning on the left and right turn signal. Does the instrument panel light up left and right turn signal?
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Sorry for delay on responding to this. It's my son's Saturn & he is down in VA while I'm up in NY. He came home this weekend & we did some trouble shooting:

Here's what is exactly happening:
- Hit key fob for lock & unlock. No flashing on driver's side signal lights.
- All parking/running/headlights/reverse lights work.
- Flasher button pushed. Left & right lights on dash flash accordingly and normal frequency. Right side front/back lights flash accordingly. No flashing lights on left side.
- Turn right signal on and light on dash flashes with normal frequency & signal light also work.
- Turn left (driver's side) signal on and light on dash flashes but with twice frequency of right side & flasher frequency. No front/back lights flashing.

What we did.
- changed bulbs just to make sure even though he had done that when the issue first arose. No change.
-changed out light switch stalk from my '07 Ion, thinking as Fdryer mentioned it may be that. Numbers on my stalk matched his, so there should have been no compatibility issues. Still no left side signal and all symptoms the same as before.
- Checked all fuses, even though there is no specific turn signal fuse. All OK.

I'm gonna show my age here, but on other older cars I had when you had a bad bulb or less power draw, the flasher unit always clicked faster than when all bulbs were working. So I'm thinking a circuit is not complete or broken wire, but never know on these newer cars.

He is heading back to VA today, so we're going to do some more research. Until it can be resolved, he can use hand signals. Hopefully other driver's know what he is doing.

Fdryer, thanks for diagram.

From the diagram, it appears that all control/power goes thru the BCM before splitting off for the front and then rear signals. Unfortunately I am not the best when it comes to electrical stuff, but with help from colleagues and the knowledgeable guys on this forum we can get this worked out before inspection next January.

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 06-26-2017, 02:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

John, age has nothing to do with car maintenance other than attempting to get up off the ground after laying down and crawling around on my back. Hand and feet cramps among muscle aches seem to attack aging bodies not as agile as we once were. The mind leads the body with mind tending to remain intact (barring senility/Alzheimer's) while the body ages. Young people can't imagine the previous phrase. I read about one female aerobatic champion, who back in the '90's stated that prior to entering full competition, she would have to slowly build up her training regimen. After the season ends, she mentions the body doesn't like being tossed around in high 'G' maneuvers so a slow build up is her personal regimen. My guess is the human body needs to be reintroduced slowly with low g moves before proceeding to the snap rolls and tight turns that pins a body to the seat. I'm not expert on electrical wiring and may have to examine wiring diagrams several times before I can understand circuitry. What makes some electrical circuits challenging is the sophisticated (dual) use function.

Ion turn signals are used in daytime running lights with the bcm and light sensor needed to have lights on yet still allow normal turn signaling. I read drl function and description so I can attempt to wrap drl and normal turn signal functions around my head. Whether one or the other interferes with turn signaling may require some time to contemplate. My excuse for slow answers may be with the one cell between my ears with too much trivia info stored, not leaving room for deep thought processes like jumping out of a perfectly good airplane with a parachute on or staring at the opposite sex to determine what level of eye candy becomes disturbing enough to cause strange behavior.

Are DRLs working correctly? With headlamps off, no L or R turn signal on, the front L&R turn signal lights should be ON. According to the diagram, there are five grounds, labeled on the bottom of the drawing. G101 goes to a ground splice pack where several (black) wires are grouped together into a square pack with one ring terminal connected to a chassis stud. Several ground splice packs are used throughout a vehicle. The other grounds, G201, G203, G401 and G403 are elsewhere on chassis studs. Chassis and engine block are grounded to the battery with battery ground cable connecting to a nearby chassis stud and engine block. I'm using drawings for reference. Try locating G101's splice pack and disconnecting it for close examination. Left and right turn signals (two of several ground wires) are grouped into this splice pack. Several members (in other forums) have found their rear ground splice pack with one ground wire corroded, fuel pump ground, creating pump failure. This is one area to examine.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

I will check out the ground or at least tell him to since he is back in VA with the car.
Not sure about the DRLs. Another thing to follow up on.

Sidenote:
I saw on the L Series forum that the flasher is located on the push button on dash. It was causing some issues with signals/hazards not working. Not sure if that is the case with the Ion, but will follow up that route also.

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 06-27-2017, 03:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

If your son has access to read these forums, discuss suggestions with him so he can follow up on these forums. He doesn't have to become a member and simply read these threads.

The four way flasher is part of the turn signal circuitry and according to your detailed diagnosis, turning on the hazard lights didn't have any effect on the left signal lights with the two turn indicators flashing correctly. This seems to point to a ground problem. If you are familiar with wiring diagrams, I can post them immediately.

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Old 07-06-2017, 02:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Will do, and hopefully he will follow up.
I think the diagram you posted last will help so let us work on that for now. I remember seeing that ground block G101 you mentioned, so I will have him check that first and get back with results.
Thanks

...
John
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:15 AM   #8
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Clear the codes in the BCM.

When the turn signal circuits are opened with the BCM awake it will set a code and may disable the circuit.

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Old 07-07-2017, 12:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by bern View Post
Clear the codes in the BCM.

When the turn signal circuits are opened with the BCM awake it will set a code and may disable the circuit.
i noticed that when I installed LED bulbs without a resistor. however, the condition went away after a few restarts with regular bulbs in.

...
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

OK.....son came home yesterday. We worked on the Ion some more.
Cleaned up the ground block (G101)inside & out. It had 6/7 wires into it and did not look too bad. Re-attached still no driver's side blinkers.

Not sure how to reset/clear BCM, as Bern noted. There were no codes showing on the Autozone scanner I have, but that is for engine issues. We did unhook the power to fuse block & ECM, but that did not help either.

Mr. Fdryer,
There are no DRLs. Thought there was at first,(both headlights & running lights when switch was on auto) but car was in garage. Pulled it out where sun could get to dash sensor. No DRLs what-so-ever when on Auto. Running lights come on when switched on, & headlights come on when switched to head lights.
I appreciate the help you have given here. It's saved us money by not giving it to someone else to troubleshoot.

I saw that on my '07 Ion the signal filament comes on for DRLs & if signal is turned on then it blinks. I thought DRLs were running lights but not the case.
So.. back to more troubleshooting.

Did I mention I don't like electrical issues!!!!!

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 07-15-2017, 05:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

I've reviewed wiring and may have left out another ground path, G401. Back in post#2, its shown on the bottom of the diagram. Below is a diagram of the rear shelf where this ground splice pack connects to the chassis. I think this may be where the two turn signal lights aren't connecting to ground. Check this spice pack for corrosion.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Thank you.
He is leaving in the AM tomorrow. If we can get to it by then, he can at least check back as to what he finds. I will pass this along to him.
Again, I appreciate all your help.

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 07-24-2017, 11:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Found & cleaned the G401 ground block as Fdryer noted. It was very clean but we touched up terminals, body connection points and that did not help.

My thinking is still BCM, but on a whim when he comes home beginning of August, I will swap out my hazard switch with his and see if that makes difference. Doesn't cost anything and will get him more familiar with inside of the Ion.

If that does not work, maybe contact mechanic that re-flashed the ECM in our old S series, to see cost of re-flashing BCM.

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 11-27-2017, 01:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

It's been awhile, but wanted to post follow up on our issue.
When Chris, my son, was back down in Va. he had a friend look into the problem and traced it back to the BCM. Chris was all ready to spend the $300+ (which he doesn't have being a college student) on a new one, but I told him to hold off.
Fast forward to this past weekend and I did some troubleshooting when he came home for Thanksgiving. I had bought a power probe to help trace & power circuits for the signals. Everything check fine, but no power from BCM to signal light on driver side. So again, leads me to think BCM.

I open the side panel on console to locate plug into BCM. Find it and locate which light blue & dark blue wires for lights as per the wiring diagram that Mr. Fdryer gave us. Unplug the connector from BCM but can't quite get it so I can see if plugs are corroded or which is the ones I need to probe. Undo the shift cover on console but can't release due to shifter being to far forward. Put key in to be able to move shifter but nothing.

DUH..no power cause I unplugged it. Plug it back in, move shifter and get cover off. For whatever reason, I hit the signal switch....BAM the left signals work!!!!! Got DRL too. Unplugged it again, cleaned plugs with contact/electronics cleaner. They looked good and plugged back in and signals still worked.

Long story short....either plug was not in as it should have been or there was some corrosion and it did not make contact as it should. He drove back to Va. with no issues other than a blow out on his rear tire.
Thank for all your help and will keep posted if issue comes back. Just remember...check connections before you go buying parts that may not be needed.

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 11-27-2017, 06:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

It's fdryer. Addressing me as Mr goes to my head and I cannot absorb much with one cell between my ears. It never occurred to me connections to the bcm may be the issues you discovered to solve this dilemma. It's great to discover something out of the ordinary when all could I do is imagine from afar, using more or less straight forward guesses based on provided info.

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Old 11-28-2017, 12:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
It's fdryer. Addressing me as Mr goes to my head and I cannot absorb much with one cell between my ears. It never occurred to me connections to the bcm may be the issues you discovered to solve this dilemma. It's great to discover something out of the ordinary when all could I do is imagine from afar, using more or less straight forward guesses based on provided info.
Sorry if I insulted by calling you Mr., but that was the way I was raised and was taught to address someone I did not know that well or was more knowledgeable than myself. Now that we are on a more familiar name basis, I will dispense with Mr. and just address you as you wish.
Although I too was racking my brain trying to figure the issue from long distance, I was glad it did not entail any great expense or downtime.

...
John
'03 Ion2
'07 Ion2
'00 SL1 (just died)

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Old 11-28-2017, 01:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2003 Ion Blinker Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by lt230s View Post
It's been awhile, but wanted to post follow up on our issue.
When Chris, my son, was back down in Va. he had a friend look into the problem and traced it back to the BCM. Chris was all ready to spend the $300+ (which he doesn't have being a college student) on a new one, but I told him to hold off.
Fast forward to this past weekend and I did some troubleshooting when he came home for Thanksgiving. I had bought a power probe to help trace & power circuits for the signals. Everything check fine, but no power from BCM to signal light on driver side. So again, leads me to think BCM.

I open the side panel on console to locate plug into BCM. Find it and locate which light blue & dark blue wires for lights as per the wiring diagram that Mr. Fdryer gave us. Unplug the connector from BCM but can't quite get it so I can see if plugs are corroded or which is the ones I need to probe. Undo the shift cover on console but can't release due to shifter being to far forward. Put key in to be able to move shifter but nothing.

DUH..no power cause I unplugged it. Plug it back in, move shifter and get cover off. For whatever reason, I hit the signal switch....BAM the left signals work!!!!! Got DRL too. Unplugged it again, cleaned plugs with contact/electronics cleaner. They looked good and plugged back in and signals still worked.

Long story short....either plug was not in as it should have been or there was some corrosion and it did not make contact as it should. He drove back to Va. with no issues other than a blow out on his rear tire.
Thank for all your help and will keep posted if issue comes back. Just remember...check connections before you go buying parts that may not be needed.
thanks for the follow-up. in case it comes back, cover the sockets with dielectric grease and reconnect. it's a great trick for intermittent connection issues. i've done in in cars and PCs and it works every time.

...
fixed/replaced so far: side mirror, window trims x4, trunk floor, radiator bushing, alternator, starter, LCA x2, sway bar bushings x2, end links x2, timing chain tensioner, O2 sensor.

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