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Old 04-02-2017, 07:32 PM   #1
michaelkm8
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Default 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

Hello All,
I have a friend who has a 2002 Saturn SL1 and she has quite a few codes that are showing up. I took them down today and reset the Service Engine Soon light to see what came up when she drives it this week.

The Problem:
The car is hard to start up if it hasn't been started for a while, e.g. over night, and you have to floor it to get it started. When it starts it chugs at under 3k RPM's and is fine over it. Once it warms up it runs just fine at all RPM's during idle. The car does not have any issues at all when driving it or at stop lights idling. If you get the car started and let it warm up you can turn it on and off without issue. It is only when it is cold that the starting up issue arises.

The Codes:
The following codes where taken before the SES light was reset.
P0128(Three of these showed up): Replace thermostat or something.
P1599: Stalled engine or something.
P0562: Battery, belt, alternator, or wiring short/open.
P0413: Air sensor or something.
P0341: Camshaft position sensor.
P0300: Misfire or something.

What I Know:
I read up on all the codes and understand them all. I understand there is no camshaft and also understand that the ICM needs to be cleaned and that the corrosion needs to be removed from all spots to create good ground connection.

What I Checked:
I started the car and removed the spark plug wires one at a time to see if any were bad. They all arced like crazy when they got close to any grounded metal and the engine sputtered in an obvious manner each time I removed one. The battery and serpentine belt all looked good and were replaced two years ago.

So basically I would like opinions on what I should tackle first. I think what I am planning on doing is replacing the spark plugs, spark plug wires, ignition coil module, thermostat, coolant temp sensor, and the crankshaft sensor.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

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Old 04-02-2017, 08:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

P0128: sensed temp lower than expected; either thermostat stuck open or ECTS screwed

P0413: AIR Pump feedback voltage under 1.25v

P0300, P0341: Basically means it's time for new spark plugs & wires. First try zip-tying the wires to cyl 1 & 4 closer together (reroute wires if necessary, don't want anything between these two).

P0562: Battery voltage to the PCM is under 11v with engine running, use a volt-meter to check at the battery.

Given all these are basically electrical in nature I'd be testing with a DMM before replacing parts, I'd say either the alternator, battery or battery cables have effectively failed (corroded connections) or outright failed.

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Old 04-02-2017, 09:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

^^^ +1

Don't throw parts at it until some diagnosis has been done, that can get expensive and frustrating. Live-data can save a whole lot of guessing in a case like this.

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Old 04-03-2017, 02:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

Was any work done or parts replaced shortly before the problems started showing up?

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Old 04-03-2017, 07:08 PM   #5
michaelkm8
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

alordofchaos - The work was done two years ago or so. Nothing recent.

billr - It's $92 to replace everything I listed. Not sure if it's worth the frustration of checking everything too extensively, which is why I posted to get some help before throwing money at it.

fetchitfido - I don't fully understand the reply to P0300, P0341 codes. I'm going to run over there this weekend and start checking voltage and resistances everywhere.

Thanks for all the help guys. It's much appreciated. Does anyone have any feedback for replacing the crankshaft sensor? I had a 2005 Nissan Altima that had the same symptoms and the replaced sensor solved the problem. Again thank you.

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Old 04-06-2017, 12:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

If the engine runs, it's not a crank sensor failure.

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Old 04-06-2017, 12:38 PM   #7
Jim@HiTek
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

If I recall, a bad ECTS can cause some of those symptoms and it's not only a common failure item, but it's pretty easy to check and replace. Maybe stop at the autoparts store and have one with you when you look at the car. You want the type made with brass and has a flat nose.

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Old 04-07-2017, 05:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: 2002 SL1 Throwing Codes Need Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkm8 View Post
alordofchaos - The work was done two years ago or so. Nothing recent.

billr - It's $92 to replace everything I listed. Not sure if it's worth the frustration of checking everything too extensively, which is why I posted to get some help before throwing money at it.

fetchitfido - I don't fully understand the reply to P0300, P0341 codes. I'm going to run over there this weekend and start checking voltage and resistances everywhere.

Thanks for all the help guys. It's much appreciated. Does anyone have any feedback for replacing the crankshaft sensor? I had a 2005 Nissan Altima that had the same symptoms and the replaced sensor solved the problem. Again thank you.
It is nit your crankshaft position sensor. With the Saturn S-Series, unlike rice paddy mobiles, the CKP will either work or it won't.

If the engine starts and runs, your CKP is fine.

Your thermostat and ECTS need replaced. You are probably due for an alternator, and need to check your battery ground wires, as well as the cables.

Here is why you start with the Battery, cables, and alternator:

Low Voltage will disrupt the engine sensor reference voltage levels, which in turn will cause you PCM to detect faults that would otherwise not be there. It will also cause erratic shifting on the automatic transmissions.

The reason it will be fine, above 3,000rpm, would simply be from alternator amperage output levels being increased. And a warm engine burns fuel better than a cold engine.

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