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Old 08-19-2016, 05:33 PM   #21
YouTubeMechanic
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Battery is brand new, 1 month old. And is still charged. I just took number 4 and 1 wires off of the coil to check for spark between towers and saw nothing..

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Old 08-19-2016, 05:40 PM   #22
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

And now we're back to a starting problem with the starter working, engine cranking, turning over but engine not firing up, correct?

Do you have fuel spraying out the fuel test valve or not?

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Old 08-19-2016, 06:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Finally found the test valve. I depressed it and i heard air come out but no fuel.

I know your going to say its a fuel problem now obviously. But before we continue, would that have any affect on seeing no spark between the coil tower?

What ever your response, what should be my next steps be now that we know this?

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Old 08-19-2016, 06:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Fuel filter im sure. But anything else? I do hear the pump when turning the keybso im assuming thats working.

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Old 08-19-2016, 06:26 PM   #25
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Air in a fuel line is never a good thing. Pressures for EFI systems guarantee no air in lines (35-65 psi). You exposed two problems in less time than it took to reply between posts.

Air, fuel and spark are needed to make internal combustion engines run. So far, you found two possible problems. Lets assume air has no trouble being ingested (air filter not dirty). Lack of fuel and lack of spark can point to a critical part of the EFI system, the crank position sensor. I use cps when ckp is the correct abbreviation. Before jumping on a possible crank sensor failure, you can check for blown fuses, injectors have one fuse, ignition system may have more than one. Pull blade fuses to verify the 'S' element is there. The crank sensor must operate as it provides precise timing signals the pcm needs to operate the entire EFI system. No crank sensor output = no fuel pump, no ignition for spark and no injector pulses. Its behind the starter, mounted with one 10mm bolt. Resistance measurement with a multimeter should show between 700-1200 ohms. The crank sensor is only outputting when the engine is turning over whether starting or running. The fuel pump is cycled on for two seconds at ignition ON time (not START). A fuel pressure gauge connected to the fuel test valve can help. Under normal circumstances, fuel and pressure is available to injectors before starting takes place. Not seeing fuel spray is a concern.

If you are adventurous and consider safety precautions, you can remove the fuel pump relay in the console and examine the pinouts on the relay correlating to its socket terminals; inserting a small wire jumper across relay terminal sockets 30 and 87 will send 12 volts to immediately power up the fuel pump regardless of ignition switch position. If the pump is heard humming/hissing, check the fuel test valve again. You may need to replace the fuel filter if it hasn't been replaced after 100k miles.

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Old 08-19-2016, 07:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

I dont think im willing to be that adventurous. All fuses appear to be good. Where is the starter located? I dont see it from up top. I will be crawling under while i wait.. And also how do i test it?

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Old 08-19-2016, 07:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Meaning. How do i test the crank sensor output
I have a multimeter but have never used it other than on a battery. I know to set it to read ohms.

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Old 08-19-2016, 07:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Found the starter underneith

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Old 08-19-2016, 07:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

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Old 08-19-2016, 07:52 PM   #30
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light



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Old 08-19-2016, 10:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Well. It doesnt matter how the cps is tested. I went and bought one and installed it. And still no spark.. Didnt check for fuel again yet. Will do that tomorrow.. I think im just going to buy the ICM tomorrow too and make sure thats not causing the no spark problem. So i have now changed

Spark plugs
Left coil
Camshaft position sensor.
O2 sensor that goes into the exhaust manifold in front of the ngine.

What else is left for the ignition system? The battery is new, the wires look good. But still no spark at tower coils.

Maybe I'll go to a junk yard and pull a catalytic converter. Is there any reason i should NOT do that?

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Old 08-20-2016, 12:54 AM   #32
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

The cat will not prevent it from firing, at least briefly, no matter how bad it is plugged.

Use that multimeter to measure voltage at the two wires to a fuel-injector, with "key-on" and the harness connected to the injector. Both wires should read about 12V relative to chassis ground. Then, connect the meter probes to just the two wires (polarity doesn't really matter). Connected like that, key-on voltage should be about 0VDC or AC; when cranking that should change to a low AC reading (under 1VAC), indicating the CKP circuit is OK.

Put another way: the CKP circuit triggers turn-on of ignition, injector pulses, and a re-start of the fuel pump. If any of those occur, then the CKP circuit is OK. Since you seem to have no spark, then you need to check for injector pulses or the fuel pump coming back on to decide whether chasing the CKP is appropriate. Checking for injector pulses is easier... especially if you skip the meter test and get a "noid light" to put between the injector and harness connector!

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Old 08-20-2016, 04:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Just for fun, please post a picture of the test fitting where air came out when you depressed it. Seems odd that you hear the fuel pump running but get no fuel at the fuel rail. Or... That is a clue.

Also, and likely not related, your lower mounting bolt for the alternator is loose.

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Old 08-20-2016, 04:34 PM   #34
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouTubeMechanic View Post
I dont think im willing to be that adventurous. All fuses appear to be good. Where is the starter located? I dont see it from up top. I will be crawling under while i wait.. And also how do i test it?
The starter and Crank Position Sensor are both located on the backside of the engine, underneath the intake manifold. You will need a lift, ramps, or jack stands to properly access them both from under the car. There is room down there, even though it may not look that way now. Trust me.

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Old 08-20-2016, 05:14 PM   #35
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexw68 View Post
...
Also, and likely not related, your lower mounting bolt for the alternator is loose.
Look closer. There is a funky copper-like/looking split spacer inside the aluminum bracket. It could be the grounding location.

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Old 08-20-2016, 07:48 PM   #36
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Good catch. I have been fortunate enough to not have mine off yet. Zoomed in and I must agree with you.

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Old 08-20-2016, 08:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Excellent observation. That 'washer' jutting out from the alternator is probably the bushing/spacer wandering horizontally on the mounting hole.
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:49 PM   #38
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

I have a wrench code I've been working on and learned a few things...

1) The coils are removable and can be swapped to check if a misfire shifts, which narrows it down. In your case, you have a random misfire so not likely a good test, but I'd swap them anyway.
2) The coils can be measured with an ohmmeter and should read 18K ohms or so from tower to tower. Test both towers.
3) Those two coil assemblies plug into the Ignition Module (IM). That's the device that controls the sparks. If you're getting a random misfire, you might have a bad IM.
4) They make a push button switch that's available at auto parts stores that you wire up to act as the ignition switch. You clip it to the battery + & to the starting solenoid, turn the key to "Run", and use it to 'jog' the engine. Then you can look for sparks.
5) To check for bad high voltage wires, wait until dark. Open the hood, start the engine, and look for blue sparks jumping from place to place in the engine compartment. Any blue sparks means buy new parts.

Sorry, my ISP is giving me fits. When I started writing this, I was only seeing 10 posts in this thread. When I posted, seems there's over twenty. And it didn't take me that long to compose. I hate Tengo Internet Services. They suck.

Last edited by Jim@HiTek; 08-20-2016 at 09:57 PM..

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Old 08-21-2016, 11:21 AM   #39
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Cars running again. After changing the spark plugs, coils, cam shaft position sensor nothing happened. Then i changed the ICM (Ignition control Module) and VOILA... Car runs just fine

Thank you all for the guidance..

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Old 08-21-2016, 09:45 PM   #40
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Default Re: 02 Sl1 Unknown problem flashing service light

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouTubeMechanic View Post
Cars running again. After changing the spark plugs, coils, cam shaft position sensor nothing happened. Then i changed the ICM (Ignition control Module) and VOILA... Car runs just fine

Thank you all for the guidance..
That's good to hear. Don't worry, most of the other stuff you posted are known for going bad anyway or are routine maintenance items. So, if anything, you saved yourself from later repairs if they were to go bad.

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