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Old 07-30-2016, 02:55 PM   #1
dylank
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2000 SL2
Default Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

2000 Saturn SL2
Automatic transmission
No Cruise Control
267,923 miles.

New battery, new CV Axles, new left hand hub and bearing, new radiator and new starter.


So occasionally when I go to start my car it cranks and starts no problem but then dies. I then have to crank it again, sometimes it starts and sometimes it dies and takes a couple times to get it running. Once it runs it is fine. Today after I finally got it running, strange dash lights were lit. The "SERVICE" light was lit and the "SECURITY" light was also lit. I have NEVER seen these lit after the initial start up process. I have seen the "SERVICE ENGINE SOON" light many a times but never these. Here is what the dash looked like. The coolant light is always on as the sensor has gone bad and I have not had the desire to drain the system just to change it. Being a good little home mechanic I went to the auto part store and got the OBD computer and read the codes. The following came up.

Code:
P0410 - Secondary Air / Injection System / Intermittent
P0447 - Evaporative / Emission System / Vent Control / Circuit Open
P1599 - Engine Stall Or Near Stall Detected / History
P0572 - Cruise Control / Brake Swtich / Circuit A low / History Current

Here are pictures of the codes

There are a number of other codes that came up however these have come up for years and relate to the transmission. They appear unrelated but I took pictures of all and can upload if needed.

I recently installed a starter a few weeks ago but this seems unrelated to me. Please let me know if you guys have any ideas or need any other information.

Here is a link to all of the codes that seem relevant and a picture of the dash with the strange lights.

Last edited by dylank; 07-30-2016 at 02:58 PM.. Reason: Added more information and better links

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Old 07-30-2016, 03:47 PM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

Nice post with pictures and codes to paint a picture of your dilemma. My initial guess is based largely on the very high mileage, 267k miles. What's fuel pressure and was the fuel filter ever replaced?

I ignored the error codes because they may be false errors from the random engine dying. Sometimes electronics takes precedence over mechanical faults while at other times it takes a back seat. A worn out or intermittent fuel pump no guarantees after a new car warranty expired (long ago) can fail at any time. The fuel filter is insurance against crap clogging injectors but may become clogged from filtering thousands of gallons of fuel from every gas station used, compounding a fuel problem.

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Old 07-31-2016, 05:32 PM   #3
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2000 SL2
Default Re: Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

So as far as I know the fuel filter and pump have never been changed. From searching this forum I was leaning towards replacing the fuel filter. I have put 100,000 miles on it myself and know it was not changed in that time. Given that 100k miles is recommended replacement for the filter I figured it was time anyways.

HOWEVER...

Today I drove my car about 15 miles, parked it for about 20 minutes and came out to start it. Nothing. I mean no dash lights, no sounds, nothing. As if there was no battery. I got out and giggled the battery terminal wires and heard the fuel pump kick on. Started no problem, however the tachometer, speedometer, thermostat and fuel gauge all stayed at 0. Here is a picture of my instrument cluster while driving at about 30 miles an hour.

Is it possible these loose wires could cause the car to die after it has already turned over? If so then why does it never die after it successfully runs for a few seconds. I feel like the bumps and dips or driving would cause them to work loose and die, but it has never happened?

Car is strong otherwise, I feel like it could very well have another 25k+ left in it....

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Old 07-31-2016, 05:53 PM   #4
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

You're presenting possibly another problem that may be different to what's being discussed - main power and its connections. The battery, battery cables and their connections are power and distribution. A faulty battery, corroded cables (seen or underneath cable terminals), and their connections (chassis and engine grounds) provide power to the car. You'll have to do more than just jiggle wires.

No electrical or electronics engineer can tell you what may occur when power is allowed to be intermittent. This simply falls under the "what if?" realm of possibilities for anyone to speculate about. The best you can do to eliminate this gray area is to carefully go over the entire power system (battery, battery cables and their connections).

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Old 08-01-2016, 10:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

I am going to do a few things today, some as maintenance and others to resolve my issues...

1. Clean battery terminals.
2. Clean all exposed battery wires and connections.
3. Replace fuel filter.
4. Replace spark plugs.
5. Inspect and test resistance on spark wires.


Anything else you guys can think of?

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Old 08-01-2016, 12:34 PM   #6
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

A sure fire way to confirm battery corrosion on cable connections and possible damage to wires is using a warm solution of baking soda and water with a toothbrush. Applying this solution to battery corrosion (white powdery deposits) will cause an immediate chemical reaction by bubbling as it dissolves dried battery acid and neutralizes it. Battery vapors vent and dry out to coat anything nearby while eating copper wires under the heavy duty cable insulation. Early L200 owners suffered battery side terminal damage, leaking battery acid into cables resulting in severe erosion of copper wires to the red (positive) battery cable. At least one member paid to find out why his car had intermittent starting problems, to the tune of $400 to replace battery and cable. Once dissolved of dried acid, a water rinse is all that's needed and either petroleum grease, plain grease or oil coating bare battery terminals. Battery spray cleaner uses a mix of baking soda and grease to provide a one-two solution to battery maintenance.

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Old 08-02-2016, 05:53 PM   #7
dylank
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2000 SL2
Default Re: Intermediate dying after start / 2000 SL2

I performed all of the maintenance I listed above. I also used fdryer's recommended method to clean the battery corrosion. There was a fair amount but it all cleaned up pretty well. As the problem is intermittent I will not know until it happens again. So I guess no news is good news. One thing I did notice is that spark plug 3 and 4 using this diagram as reference seems soaked in oil. I will do research as to this issue and if need be start a new thread. I have just grown to love this car so much as I have put so much blood, sweat and tears into it that I don't want it to die. I have money in the bank for a new car but want this car to last forever....

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