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Old 10-29-2015, 12:33 PM   #1
Carbon.Beatz
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Default Possible Water Pump Failure?

Drove my 2000 Saturn LS2, ~140k, to school today and noticed some white smoke coming from the hood. Opened the hood, engine still running, with squeaking and white smoke coming from the pulley side of the engine around the water pump area. The squeaking started yesterday when I was looking for a possible leak at the quick connect hoses for the heater core, but assumed it was the tension pulley going out. I shut her off and after a bit the smoking ceased.

Water pump issue? I'm sure it is, just wanting a second opinion. Still safe to drive home? I got about 30 miles on the highway back home. Coolant level fine with some in the back seat ready to be added if needed. I bought the car at 119k from a small dealership so I'm wondering if I should replace the timing belt at the same time. Yes?

Also, I've read a few threads on the replacement of both, but is supporting the engine and removing the mount necessary? I just don't want to take off the mount because it sounds a little iffy since I'm not sure where I would support it yet. Granted I have not yet looked. Suggestions as to where to support it?

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Old 10-29-2015, 03:30 PM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

If this is the 3.0L V6 engine, unless you have a history of the previous owner replacing the timing belt at 100k miles, you're on borrowed time. Timing belt, water pump and fuel filter. Losing coolant thru the water pump means coolant leaking onto the timing belt and a recipe for severe engine damage if the belt shreds while driving. It's your choice to address it immediately or risk expensive valve/piston damage when a timing belt lets go.

If this is a 4 cylinder engine, no timing belt - timing chain. A special tool is needed to hold the balance chain before removing the water pump.

If you choose to drive, use plain water instead of wasting new antifreeze. Do this only temporarily until you get around to pump replacement and before freezing weather out you live in snow country.

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Old 10-29-2015, 04:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

I took the risk before your reply, unfortunately. Drove seemingly fine and the squeak went away after about 5 minutes and drove 30 minutes no issue. Got to town and slowed down to hear a knocking noise. Pulled over and the engine seems to have a knocking sound up top, but with no white smoke or squeaking as assumed to be with the water pump.

She still ran fine and drove smooth, just the knocking made me stop. Waiting for a tow truck now. Hoping I didn't bend valves.

Edit: 3.0 V6

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Old 10-29-2015, 06:23 PM   #4
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

In the meantime, you can search past threads about members replacing their timing belts, timing references, home made clamps instead of the pricey tool kit for rent or purchase to lock timing gears in place, and pictures. This might help if you decide to do this yourself and whether or not subscribing to alldata/Mitchell for access to service manuals.

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Old 10-29-2015, 07:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
In the meantime, you can search past threads about members replacing their timing belts, timing references, home made clamps instead of the pricey tool kit for rent or purchase to lock timing gears in place, and pictures. This might help if you decide to do this yourself and whether or not subscribing to alldata/Mitchell for access to service manuals.

Did all that while at school today. Going to end up doing the zip tie method probably since I have about 500 of those on hand. Yay for being a cable installer!

Gathered 90% of the tools today. Going to start tearing her apart tomorrow after work and possible make a video on it. We'll see. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks!

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Old 11-01-2015, 10:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

Took a night and half a day, but I was able to get her running again. Water pump was fine, actually. Ended up being the tension pulley that completely destroyed itself and left pieces of itself all over the timing area. The Timing belt also had cracks all over it, so, in that regard, I'm happy something like the pulley failed when it did or I may have never done it and my belt would have went.

Timing was off a little overall and had to re-time it. Also did the typical thing of putting her back together without consistent testing because I did that and there was a terrible knocking sound again. Tension Pulley needed adjusting more and after about 30 minutes of doing that and another 10 of starting and revving the car it stays within spec. I have a few pictures that I haven't transferred off my phone yet, but I will upload them later.

Still, I replaced the water pump and the serpentine because, even though with no cracks or anything, I say a small hole in it and didn't want to take the chance.

Things to note from my experience:
100,000 miles. Don't chance it.
Tension Pulleys for timing (at least for this car) are difficult
Letting the car/engine sit on jacks overnight is stressful

Thanks to the many posts and threads that helped in the matter! Pictures coming within the next day.

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Old 11-02-2015, 04:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

OK, so I wasn't as good as I thought. The knocking came back so I'm about to tear it back down to suspect the tensioner. How do you properly adjust the tension because I think I may be doing it wrong. Same with the idler pulleys.

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Old 11-02-2015, 04:45 PM   #8
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

Are you asking about the timing belt idlers and tensioners? If so, either they're covered in past threads or not. If not, I may be able to post a brief reprint.

What makes you think this is slack in timing causing knocking sounds? Is it lifter noise?

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Old 11-02-2015, 05:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

I believe it is slack again because when I first had the noise the tension was waayyy off what I thought was in spec. Going through other threads, I found another post of yours with an illustration on it and I'm almost positive I did it wrong.

I've always had a valve like noise but I know it well enough to distinguish it.

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Old 11-02-2015, 06:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon.Beatz View Post
I've always had a valve like noise but I know it well enough to distinguish it.
The "valve" noise sounds like space between the cam and valve head. Like a lopping sound. It's been there since I've owned it 2 yrs/30,000 miles ago. Hasn't grown worse or changed in anyway.

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Old 11-03-2015, 01:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

I retensioned it and basically put her back together and drove her around with no knock development but I'm watching the tensioner and it seems to gradually move off spec but usually stays right on the edge like in the illustration. That a problem?

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Old 11-03-2015, 04:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

Drove her around some more and I can confidently bet the job is done. Had some difficulties overall, but what I am assuming the knocking sound I had gotten the first time I put her back together was probably from the Crank Pulley. When taking her apart, I found that not all of the bolts were tight and were fairly loose. I could have sworn I tightened them all

First issue I had was the fact I had a stripped bolt on my PS pulley. I was unable to get it off the entire time I was working on the car. Somehow was able to get everything around it.


----
After getting the WP Pulley off I noticed some debris which worried me.


----
After taking off the timing cover I got a better look at the debris and noticed this on the crank pulley.



----
This was the culprit. Tensioner was ripping itself apart.


----
The belt. Definitely needed replacing anyway. Glad it was the pulley and not the belt.

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Old 11-03-2015, 06:57 PM   #13
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2000 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Possible Water Pump Failure?

WOW! You dodged an expensive bullet. Congrats on getting it done.

Mike

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