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Old 07-16-2015, 09:14 AM   #21
cgc
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Default Re: 2009 Outlook w/ 3.6 Misfiring (I've searched)

I ended up calling the GM Customer Service line.

This is how the process goes:
The operator ends up taking all your information, ask you what issues your having, create a case number for you to reference then gets you transferred over to a Senior Rep.

At this point they talk to you more about the issue. If you ever have to call them MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR VIN. I was stupid and did not have the VIN on hand so they were having to call the dealership to get that (which really isn't a big deal....I'll explain why in a minute).

The Senior rep was super nice, and I've been in customer service for a LONG time so I know how to vent my frustration WITHOUT being a complete douchebag to the rep I have on the phone.
So, once I was done speaking to the Rep, she said that they would contact the Dealership's Customer Experience Manager and see if they could help.

I asked her, "So, we're going to contact the dealerships that I've already been working with on this and that I'm coming to you guys for assistance on? This seems as though I'm coming full circle and that I really need to pursue other means to resolve this."

Of course she said she couldn't advise me on my next steps and this was the process they had to follow......I get that, so I'm waiting to see what happens there.

In the mean time, I've already contacted a friend of mine who is closely tied with some local news/media and has contacts with their Consumer Advocacy dept. I've forwarded them all my information (obviously, I've been documenting the crap out of this process).

If I don't hear back from the Customer Experience Manager, I'll be pulling the trigger on the News/Media and the BBB.

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Old 07-20-2015, 08:30 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2009 Outlook w/ 3.6 Misfiring (I've searched)

So, I spoke with the Customer Experience manager late Friday.

He pretty much told me the same thing the Service Manager did.
After getting pretty pissed about the situation (not yelling or cussing, but it was clear that I was pissed), I asked him:
“To make sure we’re on the same page, In spite of your service manager telling me he believed they mishandled the situation, the car being up there three times and your mechanics (nor I) getting any indication of internal engine problems, and the fact that your mechanics can’t even diagnose the difference between a dead battery and a bad starter…..you guys assume no liability for tearing up my motor?”

In a nut shell, they believe the motor sucked up a piece of catalytic converter (which I know CAN happen….but is very unlikely). What I believe has happened after thinking about it and speaking with another mechanic. As the engine was misfiring, the engine was contaminating the oil with fuel. By doing this it probably hurt the oil’s ability to lubricate the motor properly. I didn’t think about this and which is why before I drove the car home with the Y-Pipe disconnected I point blank asked if it was OK to drive home. I’m assuming the damage took place either during that point, or during their diagnostics with the last visit to the dealership.

Anyway, as I was closing the conversation w/ the Customer Experience Manager, he said “Mr. (enter my name here), I hope if we ever have a chance to meet that there is nothing personal about this.
I told him that this is absolutely nothing personal and strictly “business”. I have nothing against either of the managers I works with and understand that they are doing what they’re told in protecting the interest of the dealership and just parroting what upper management is telling them to do. I did say that I find it hard to believe that if the tables were turned that they wouldn’t feel the same way I did.
His response, “Possibly so, Mr. (enter my name here)”.

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Old 08-24-2015, 10:18 AM   #23
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Default Re: 2009 Outlook w/ 3.6 Misfiring (I've searched)

Kind of a long post and there may be some lack of organization to it since I've had to stop and start typing about 5 times....

OK, Gentlemen so after speaking to Several Consumer Advocate groups and Georgia Advocacy Lawyer as well as a Local Law firm (the Lawyer was actually a car guy/drag racer so we had a good talk).....The following has taken place.

1. While everyone I spoke with fully believes that the motor went due to the dealership's negligence, the problem is trying to prove that the motor DID in fact come in without any issues.
2. While speaking with the Lawyer who was also a car guy, we butted heads a bit before getting on the same page....several times he was in disbelief of what the dealership told me and their crappy diagnostics.
3. The Lawyer basically said that I'd be paying as much as GM was offering to replace the engine for in legal fees....he said, "I'd just pay it" and explained that I was really stuck between a rock and hard spot on this one.

While I will not say that it's totally impossible for the engine to suck up some debris from a destroyed catalytic converter (what the dealership believes cause the engine failure), the Lawyer's words were, "there's no way in hell".

Not sure if I mentioned it, earlier but I'm 99% sure that with the misfire and raw fuel being ran through the cylinders this ended up diluting the oil and killing it's ability to lubricate the motor....ultimately causing the failure. I'm not buying the "sucking up catalytic converter debris" crap. I didn't think about it until after I had some time to dwell over the situation and spoke with another mechanic. The problem I have is I absolutely should have thought about this when I asked about driving the car home that time they disconnected the Y pipe and told me the car ran fine (yet it was still misfiring like mad)....but that was my whole reason for asking people who I thought were "professionals".
So much for that.

My wife actually had worked out a deal on a new Honda Odyssey with all the options she wanted and they were going to give us approx $8K for the Saturn if we could get it up there running....So I changed the oil, charged the battery and I made the attempt (after changing the oil) to drive it up. It did ok (slight knock) for about 3 miles, then it just went down hill from there and ultimately died.

So, we were in a position where we either take an absolute beating on the car to trade or take the dealership up on the offer to replace the motor (full 3/30K mile warranty) for $3500.....which is what we decided on. We ended up refinancing my car for the money and sent it up late last week.
While they were working on the car they called and said it had two broken motor mounts (?) needed a new battery (no kidding....remember that "bad" starter they said I had and I KNEW was the battery?) and needed to have the Throttle Body cleaned. My first comment is what kind of cheap @ss motor mounts do they put in a car that normal driving breaks these things? Anyways.....
I had them replace the two mounts because honestly, if I have this car after the end of the year I'd be HIGHLY surprised. When I sell it, I don't want to leave someone with that kind of situation. The battery, they wanted $200 for so I went to AutoZone, picked one up and dropped it off....I told them not to worry about the TB cause I'll clean that.

I also told the service writer that I wasn't interested in dumping any more money into this car.

The car is supposed to be ready today, but I've not heard from them yet....so we'll see.


This whole post was supposed to be a help for others in dealing with a mis-fire cause I couldn't find any other information on it, but in stead this has been an absolute nightmare. During this process I've spoken with people who have had similar experiences with Honda/Acuras just with part failure (no mechanic screw ups) and I know people who have been told that the car they had (even though out of warranty) should not have had that part failed, "bring it in, we'll fix it - no charge" or if their is a charge it's prorated. None of this complete mishandling like I've experienced.

I am not a brand loyal guy, and I mean no disrespect to you guys at all....but this car has me to the point where I will never own a GM product ever again. Between the lack of ownership of GM and the dealership for something that the dealership completely mishandled (and admitted doing so).....zero faith in the brand or the dealership.

Probably my last post on here unless someone has questions....so, for those who offered assistance - I greatly appreciate it and I hope none of you have to deal with the BS I've had to.
Take care.

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Old 08-24-2015, 10:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: 2009 Outlook w/ 3.6 Misfiring (I've searched)

Picked up the Saturn Outlook late Friday evening.
Cliff Notes (as short as I can make it, anyways):
- If you look in this long convoluted thread, I was originally told this swap would be for a brand NEW motor. On the receipt (my wife actually noticed it on the receipt after I arrived home) that it was a "re-manufactured" motor. I'm not sure how GM does their motors, but motors I've bought from Ford for builds in the past....if they tell you it's new....it's new. If it's listed as "re-manufactured....thats what it is. There normally from what I've seen is a clear difference.

- Kind of disappointed that after all of this, they didn't even wash the car or do any (cheap) little perk trying to provide some form of customer service recovery. Pretty much, Pay us and go on about your life.

- I spoke with the service manager briefly (you could tell I caught him off guard making eye contact so he acknowledged me). He told me they had two people test drive and there was no misfire. He stated that the motor had a 3 year 100K warranty on it. I asked him the car started misfiring again would it be covered. He stated, Yes if it was due to the motor...if it was an electrical problem (like I'm pretty sure it was/is) it would not be covered.....So I was baically going to be in the same boat I was previously, just about $3700 in the hole cause of these clowns.

- Drove it home - zero issues.

- Drove it the next day....CEL light comes on. Can't remember the exact code, but it was that either the catalytic converters or the o2 sensor was not functioning properly on bank 2. So, here we go. After driving it for a bit and there is no burned up cat smell and no misfiring....Since its the ONLY thing left in that line, the o2 sensor is probably bad.

- I was done. In the grand scheme of things, it was a very small issue....but it was the cherry on top. In spite of NOT wanting a mini-van because it's a mini-van....it makes too much sense for us to go back to an SUV or Crossover. So my wife was able to negotiate a great deal for a new Honda Odyssey. Was probably the best buying experience I've ever had and from other people I've spoken with they stand behind their produce even in situations where the car is OUT of warranty, but they KNOW the product should NOT have failed the way it did.
GM has proven to me that they're not willing to do that at all.


For those of you who posted and made suggestions through this thread, if you were close by I'd buy you a beer and say "thank you" face to face....but the best I can do is just offer a sincere "thank you" .
The only other think I can do for you is to suggest that if you're in Georgia I would highly recommend NOT taking your car/truck/SUV to SouthTowne GMC in Newnan Georgia. Although very polite, an absolutely crappy service department. Unable to diagnose simple things like the difference between a dead battery and a starter....it's just been a 4 month ordeal that I'm glad to have behind me now.

Anyway thanks again
cgc

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