How-to Subframe engine cradle replacement

[ShawnV]

Here is a how-to video for replacing the subframe on a saturn S-series 95-02. This is expanding on wolfman's posting from a long time ago on this repair.

Originally Posted by wolfman

Cradle removal: (abbreviated but easy enough to follow)

Jack up the car and support it with jackstands. You MUST get the car (measured at the frame) AT LEAST 16 inches off the ground.

Remove both front wheels and inner splash shields.

Remove the front (engine) splash shield from under the radiator

Seperate the tierod ends from the knuckle (both sides)
NOTE: This is NOT 100% necessary, BUT it can help to make removing the steering rack to cradle bolts easier, so I recommend you do so.

Seperate the ball joints from the knuckle. LEAVE the knuckles with brake componants, drive axles and struts still attached "hanging"

Support the engine and transaxle from ABOVE using a couple of appropriate length 2X4's layed accross the upper radiator support to the firewall upper portion and some STRONG rope/chain/cable through the lifting eyes. MAKE SURE that the engine/transaxle WILL NOT drop down when the cradle is removed from beneath them. ("Hanger" MUST be TIGHT before proceeding)

Remove the three nuts holding the exhaust down pipe to the manifold and the bracket and/or rubber hangers just forward of the catalytic convertor. Allow the down pipe to sag down (no need to remove it)

Remove the two bolts securing the steering rack to the cradle

Remove the LOWER engine dogbone mount and LOWER transaxle to cradle mount.

Tie the radiator SECURELY to the upper radiator support with some STRONG twine.

Break loose, but DO NOT REMOVE the 4 cradle to space frame bolts. ENSURE THAT NOTHING IS NOW ATTATCHED TO THE CRADLE! (except the lower control arms and sway bar) THEN remove the REAR cradle bolts FIRST. Support the FRONT of the cradle with a floor jack and THEN remove the front cradle attaching bolts.

SLOWLY lower the cradle making SURE that the RADIATOR does NOT come down with it and that NOTHING else is still attached or interfering with it lowering.

Drag the cradle with the sway bar and lower control arms still attached out the FRONT of the car, OVER the still attached exhaust pipe.

Install is reverse (LOL) DO NOT FORGET to use the front cradle alignment holes (mentioned in a post above) to align the cradle BEFORE tightening the bolts.

Hope that helps (and that I did not forget anything)

Obviously, I took a richpin approach to this how-to, and I would like to thank him for all he does for his many fans. I would not be the saturn enthusiast I am today without you, Richpin!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSSAbIKMVCU



Feedback?

[blackeagle1]

There is also a brake line attached to the rear of the cradle that is held on by a push pin that needs to be removed. IIRC the harness for the rear O2 sensor might be attached to the cradle as well.

[ev_dave13]

That is correct. It's important not to kink the brake line! Also, that connector is a bear to get to but is just held with one quick-release plastic retainer on each side. The real difficulty is if you need to unplug the connector - now that's hard!

[ShawnV]

I did mention this connector in the video, but I didn't call it a brake connector. What I did was lower the subframe slightly to get better access to it. Also, I had a terrible time with the power steering lines as they wanted to round off. I bought a cheap brake line wrench at AZ, which didn't help. I finally vicegriped them off (using real vice grips, not locking pliers).

[Gprime]

Originally Posted by ShawnV

I did mention this connector in the video, but I didn't call it a brake connector. What I did was lower the subframe slightly to get better access to it. Also, I had a terrible time with the power steering lines as they wanted to round off. I bought a cheap brake line wrench at AZ, which didn't help. I finally vicegriped them off (using real vice grips, not locking pliers).

i'd just like to comment on the power steering, you said you had issues with it? i left mine in the car intact, i just did and engine and sub frame on a 2001 SC2, i just disconected the outter tie rods, the 2 bolts on the rack to the frame and the pump bolts, that way you don't have to bleed it after or make a mess,

[ShawnV]

I agree with you, Gprime. Removing the steering was a pain. Although I did get a new set of craftsman flare wrenches out of it.

The ONLY reason I removed the steering was because I suspected the old steering rack was shot due to the PO driving forever with the front end messed up. The car was finally undriveabe because the steering was so shot.

If possible I would agree that leaving the steering in is much simpler and you won't disturb the power steering fluid.

[rolfbk]

Does anyone have the torque specs for the cradle bolts, or part numbers for new ones? Any tips on where to find replacement powertrain mounts (I'm looking at 15-year old rubber) also appreciated...

[ShawnV]

Yea, tighten the hell out of them. I usually tighten with my impact and then give another ¼ turn with my breaker bar. If you need new ones you can get them easily at a junk yard. I've got piles of those bolts if all else fails; send me a pm.

shawn

[kevster0522]

Does anyone know where the best place to pick up the engine is on a 95 sl1?

[Fokkersauras]

I used some tie down straps variable length and a small length of chain. I used a 2 foot piece of chain and made a non slip loop in the middle of it by bolting it together to make an approximately 2-3" loop for the cherry picker (engine hoist) , then used 3 different tie down straps (each with cinch buckles) so that I could hook them into the cradle, not the engine. Two for the engine end and one on the trans-axle end. By using the two on the engine end I could get them the right length to balance the cradle (keep it level) laterally. I used the other one and just threaded it through an added larger link in the chain and hooked it to the trans-axle end of the cradle. I only had 3 tie down straps, so I used three, I could have used 4 instead. I did hook up to 4 points (corners) on the cradle. Be very careful to avoid sharp edges where you route the straps, so that they aren't cut as you put tension on them. I tightened each tie-down to the length I needed to keep the cradle level and balanced before I removed the bolts. Make sure that you have straps that are able to carry the weight. I put some strain on the engine hoist to make sure that everything was tight. then removed the 4 cradle bolts. Lowered the cradle on some harbor freight moving (wheeled) dolly and voila. Only problem I had was getting car front end up high enough to wheel the cradle out from under the front of the car. I jacked the entire car up in the rear and put the rear wheels up on some 8x8 scrap post with nailed and glued wheel chocks. Used regular stands in the front till I had to move the cradle out from under, then used an 8x8 post (balanced on a floor jack) that was long enough to reach across the two major uni-body frame supports just aft of the cradle. Jacked up the front taking care to make sure back end did not come up. THIS is not an OSHA approved procedure! But it's how I did it. Good luck.

[kevster0522]

Originally Posted by Fokkersauras

I used some tie down straps variable length and a small length of chain. I used a 2 foot piece of chain and made a non slip loop in the middle of it by bolting it together to make an approximately 2-3" loop for the cherry picker (engine hoist) , then used 3 different tie down straps (each with cinch buckles) so that I could hook them into the cradle, not the engine. Two for the engine end and one on the trans-axle end. By using the two on the engine end I could get them the right length to balance the cradle (keep it level) laterally. I used the other one and just threaded it through an added larger link in the chain and hooked it to the trans-axle end of the cradle. I only had 3 tie down straps, so I used three, I could have used 4 instead. I did hook up to 4 points (corners) on the cradle. Be very careful to avoid sharp edges where you route the straps, so that they aren't cut as you put tension on them. I tightened each tie-down to the length I needed to keep the cradle level and balanced before I removed the bolts. Make sure that you have straps that are able to carry the weight. I put some strain on the engine hoist to make sure that everything was tight. then removed the 4 cradle bolts. Lowered the cradle on some harbor freight moving (wheeled) dolly and voila. Only problem I had was getting car front end up high enough to wheel the cradle out from under the front of the car. I jacked the entire car up in the rear and put the rear wheels up on some 8x8 scrap post with nailed and glued wheel chocks. Used regular stands in the front till I had to move the cradle out from under, then used an 8x8 post (balanced on a floor jack) that was long enough to reach across the two major uni-body frame supports just aft of the cradle. Jacked up the front taking care to make sure back end did not come up. THIS is not an OSHA approved procedure! But it's how I did it. Good luck.

You said you hooked the straps into the cradle? How did you take the cradle off then?

[ShawnV]

You can use an engine support or a couple 2x4s placed across the engine bay. I usually use ratchet straps around the engine or through the driver side engine support eye.

[Fokkersauras]

Originally Posted by kevster0522

You said you hooked the straps into the cradle? How did you take the cradle off then?

Sorry it took so long to reply. The straps were hooked to a chain on the cherry picker. Once all wiring and cables disconnected, I removed 4 cradle to frame bolts and lowered the entire cradle (complete drive train) to the ground ie,, to moving dolly's (from HB)

[1rosyjazz]

Originally Posted by ShawnV

I agree with you, Gprime. Removing the steering was a pain. Although I did get a new set of craftsman flare wrenches out of it.

The ONLY reason I removed the steering was because I suspected the old steering rack was shot due to the PO driving forever with the front end messed up. The car was finally undriveabe because the steering was so shot.

If possible I would agree that leaving the steering in is much simpler and you won't disturb the power steering fluid.

Just how long was the PO driving? My subframe on the right is bent a bit. I drive it everyday though.