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Old 04-07-2012, 12:27 AM   #1
Othermark
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Default 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

I am having issues with my 05 2.2 AWD. It has roughly 87,000 on it and is starting to have issues. Recently I have noticed a power loss in the car and it idles somewhere near 600 rpms. I understand that this can usually be a result of a bad throttle sensor but not likely in the case of the Vue. I did some disconnecting of the black vacuum hose that runs from the front of the engine passenger side to the driver side and down towards the gas tank. I disconnected the hose for an unknown unit and found that there was no suction coming from intake side of the unit when the car is idling. Once i remove the hose from the exhaust side of this unit the car seems to idle around 800 rpms. Could this part be the issue? If so, what is this part called and where can I get a fresh one?

See attached image for reference.

Thank You,
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Last edited by Othermark; 04-07-2012 at 12:32 AM.. Reason: accuracy in information

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Old 04-07-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

I'm not very familiar with the VTi transmissions, but I'm hoping this isn't some sign of failure lurking in the near future.

Stalling when fan is on... is the AC on, or heat, defrost or bilevel? Those will trigger the AC compressor to turn on. If the strain on the engine is only happening when the AC compressor is kicking in, I would suspect the compressor is your problem. Let's hope so, as replacing that would be cheap compared to fixing the VTi (CVT variable) transmission.

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Old 04-07-2012, 03:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othermark View Post
I am having issues with my 05 2.2 AWD. It has roughly 87,000 on it and is starting to have issues. Recently I have noticed a power loss in the car and it idles somewhere near 600 rpms. I understand that this can usually be a result of a bad throttle sensor but not likely in the case of the Vue. I did some disconnecting of the black vacuum hose that runs from the front of the engine passenger side to the driver side and down towards the gas tank. I disconnected the hose for an unknown unit and found that there was no suction coming from intake side of the unit when the car is idling. Once i remove the hose from the exhaust side of this unit the car seems to idle around 800 rpms. Could this part be the issue? If so, what is this part called and where can I get a fresh one?

See attached image for reference.

Thank You,
Othermark
One cause for poor idle is a dirty throttle plate ... you might be able to clean some of the junk (carbon) from each end of the plate to restore proper idle.

I'm not familiar with the 2.2 engine but could guess the hose you mention is the purge hose for the EVAP system. Fuel tank fumes are retained in a carbon filled canister and are frequently "sucked" into engine for burning.

AFAIK - it isn't normal to note vacuum on the disconnected hose. Its also normal for the purge valve to cycle periodically, so a properly operating valve wouldn't have constant vacuum.

I believe yours is the first post I've read from a member with a 2005 2.2 with AWD. I'd heard a few were made but your post confirms it for me.

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Old 04-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Thank you for your input.

I have taken a rag to the throttle plate and gave it a good rub down but no change. In regards to the cabin fan causing the car to stall, It happens regardless of AC being on. If the fan is turned on the car will stall.

The shop i took the car to suggested that the alternator is going out and the idle is due to a bad throttle sensor. I will take that the alternator is having issues but i am skeptical about the throttle sensor.

Thanks again for the input.

Last edited by Othermark; 04-07-2012 at 03:56 PM.. Reason: Information accuracy

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Old 04-07-2012, 05:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Idle Air Control Valve? Either dirty or bad.

I assume it doesn't stall if you apply throttle, correct?

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Old 04-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othermark View Post
Thank you for your input.

I have taken a rag to the throttle plate and gave it a good rub down but no change. In regards to the cabin fan causing the car to stall, It happens regardless of AC being on. If the fan is turned on the car will stall.

The shop i took the car to suggested that the alternator is going out and the idle is due to a bad throttle sensor. I will take that the alternator is having issues but i am skeptical about the throttle sensor.

Thanks again for the input.
A rag probably won't let you get into problem area which is either end of butterfly where "pins" tend to bind if dirty. You could try using throttle body spray cleaner.

Regarding stall when cabin fan is on - I missed that first time by. Does the engine stall regardless of fan speed selected? Will the fan operate in all speeds if you maintain RPM with accelerator?

Have you noticed any check engine and/or reduced power lights?

The throttle actuator control (TAC) system uses the ECM to maintain idle RPM regardless of load. Its true the TAC will act strange if the electrical system is having problems.

Do you have a voltmeter? A test across battery terminals with engine off should indicate around 12.5 volts if the battery is fully charged. It could go higher 13.5 - 14.5 with engine running around 1,000 RPM.

If battery is original - its well beyond expected useful life - the alternator should last several more thousands of miles.

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Old 04-09-2012, 08:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

"Idle Air Control Valve? Either dirty or bad.

I assume it doesn't stall if you apply throttle, correct?"


This is correct. The car only stalls when idling and it will stall regardless of fan speed. I see a significant dip in idle speed the more power I draw from the engine (wipers, radio, mirrors, windows) but the fan throws it over the edge.

Regarding the Idle Air Control Valve, is that what I have circled in the image on the original post? could you point it out on the 05 2.2 ?

Regarding a volt meter, I do not have one at the moment, I am looking to invest in one that would cover all the bases from testing the battery to testing fuses and other electronic devices on a car. Would you have a recommendation for one?


Thanks again for the good input,
Othermark

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Old 04-09-2012, 08:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othermark View Post
"Idle Air Control Valve? Either dirty or bad.

I assume it doesn't stall if you apply throttle, correct?"


This is correct. The car only stalls when idling and it will stall regardless of fan speed. I see a significant dip in idle speed the more power I draw from the engine (wipers, radio, mirrors, windows) but the fan throws it over the edge.

Regarding the Idle Air Control Valve, is that what I have circled in the image on the original post? could you point it out on the 05 2.2 ?

Regarding a volt meter, I do not have one at the moment, I am looking to invest in one that would cover all the bases from testing the battery to testing fuses and other electronic devices on a car. Would you have a recommendation for one?


Thanks again for the good input,
Othermark
The Vue does not have an Idle Air Control Valve. As mentioned in post # 6 - idle is controlled by ECM as part of TAC system.

I mentioned using a voltmeter ... they're commonly available (with instructions) at almost all retail merchants. I've posted a link to one (of many) offered by Walmart:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Performanc...ndingMethod=rr

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Old 04-09-2012, 10:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

The Idle Air Control valve might be a relic of "old school" throttles that are controlled by a cable connected to the gas pedal. VUEs are smarter and use electronics and electrical wires to convert your foot position to throttle position.

Follow F2Gs advice above about the multi-meter.

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Old 04-10-2012, 09:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Yes, after my reply I had googled what this air control vale was in relation to the vue, ironically it took me back to your thread.

I removed the air box and noticed how unusual the throttle looked( Solenoid assembly attached to the butterfly and wired back to the computer). doing a little more research I did not come across any information suggesting these devices fail very often and when they do it can get expensive quick.


Back on the topic of the cars current condition, as I make trips in its current condition I notice the battery light come on and off. I am starting to wonder if the issues with the idle are directly related to the alternator or perhaps the voltage regulator, as I know the alternator it self should not go out at 86K.

I will invest in a multimeter soon and give feed back on what I come up with.

As always thanks,
Othermark

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Old 04-11-2012, 08:58 AM   #11
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Like f2f asked: how old is the battery? Car batteries should be replaced every 6 years or so. If you wait until the battery goes bad, they can sometimes add increased strain on the alternator, which causes the alternator to fail prematurely.

If the battery is old, I'd get it tested ASAP. I'd also get a voltmeter between the battery terminals with the engine running and see if the alternator is supplying enough voltage.

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Old 04-11-2012, 09:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: 05 Vue low idle and stalls when cabin fan is on.

Tom ... I'm frequently reminded of the familiar adage - "you can lead horses to water but can't make them drink".

On the other hand - I understand why some folks are reluctant to check voltage ... until they realize its almost as simple as taking a child's temperature - orally, of course.

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Last edited by far2grumpy; 04-11-2012 at 09:32 AM..

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